This isn’t to say that I disagree with our definition, or even that I agree with Marcy. I would actually name the prevailing conviction of devout Christians of the opposite gender as the next authority. This is different from Marcy’s position in that it excludes both one’s sexual peers and the spiritually immature from voting.

Idiots wonder why our society is in the immoral state that it is, but then they think that such slogans and immoral dress is cute and funny.

I think it should be emphasized that what is questionable isn’t just the presence of suggestive words and phrases on clothing- but where do words and pictures draw the eye? To a little girl’s behind? To a young woman’s chest? Excuse me, but on what planet is staring at the female bosom or her posterior considered okey-dokey as long as what you are doing is ‘reading’ her clothing?

I would disagree with Marcy that cultural definitions of modesty can ‘override’ Biblical definitions. Regardless of one’s culture, naked is naked, and is forbidden in Scripture. The reason some cultures have a different view of nakedness isn’t because they live in a pre-fall Garden of Eden, but because they live on a corrupted earth.

Moderation is the key to modesty in any culture.

Tw years ago , a new church in our area, sent out welcome invites to about 70,000 people via mail.

My husband wrote a loving letter filled with scripture concerned with what the mail invitation looked like. A teenager wearing low, low low rider tight jeans and a tiny thin underwear looking top about 4 inches above and below belly button, a kid 8 years old sticking out his tonge and one other picture. Come as you are it said. It also conveyed a message, forget the old paths we are new and improved!!

My husband a Sunday School teacher , photocopyed the picture of the girl and asked his class what the picture was advertising, you can guess the response.

Needless to say my husband did not receive a reply from the pastor. I wonder why?

I was a cabin lead, 12 girls per cabin, 140 girls 11 to 12 year old , this past summer.My daughter was 11, she stayed in a cabin another cabin, thought it would be more fun without mom, in hers.I asked many questions on the phone and through email. It was the most conservative camp I though I could find.

No words,The chrisitian cabin role model leaders looked like play boy bunnies.The mature mini skirt, bikini clad leadership team, Directors and bible teachers listening to Shana Twain, couldn’t understand, 3 days into the camp why I was crying wracked sobs of dispair.

I wanted to share the gospel, and be a light, but at that age the girls want to emulate the cool leaders. I was heart broken.

Sex sells in church, maybe i should get a nose ring and join them, it is awfull lonely on the Timothy side of the fence, for my daughter and me. NOt!.

. a s well

However, may I mention that modesty is culturally defined? Some third world people wear just a beaded string around the waist, or just an apron the covers the groin — because buttocks and breasts are not viewed in quite the same way they are in our place and time.

Likewise, in the Victorian era, showing ankles or wrists was considered immorally provocative.

As long as we don’t pretend there are absolute and specific standards of modesty for all times and places, there is room for our understanding of modesty to be more about the principles you mention (character, consideration) and less about inches and styles.

1. Insisting on modest dress is your Biblical duty as a parent…but it is NOT a guaranteed “charm” to produce a Christian child who holds the same views you do when they leave your home. I say this from experience, sadly. My husband and I raised a lovely, seemingly Christlike girl who shared our views of modest dress all through high school…then we sent her off to college and she adopted a totally worldly view of dress from the students around her….oh, did I mention it was a well respected fundamental evangelical “Christian” college in a large midwestern city? Do you get my point? We present God’s standards to our children, but they will eventually choose their own way and there are plenty of ’so-called-christians’ who are willing to lead them astray someday….so dress them modestly and wear your “modestly covered” knees out in prayer for them!

2. Another point that needs to be mentioned is that the ‘bare midriff’ is pretty much passe and out of style now (thankfully). If you check out the stores today, most of the sweaters and shirts for girls are tunic-length and multiple layers are back! (yeah!) Notice that in repsonse to the more modest girls clothing, the boys clothing is becoming tighter and their hair is longer and back to the hippie look of the 70’s… (Now parents of boys will have to struggle with the ‘long hair’ problems!) If you think it is hard to find modest girl’s clothing today, be glad you didn’t have a teen in the early 2000’s when bare midriffs WERE in style…at least now, my teen daughter can find a long tunic to cover up her low-rise jeans and layer a modest round neckline under a low v-neck sweater.

3. Modesty doesn’t have to be dorky! It takes more work, but modest clothing options are out there if you take the time to look. We want our daughters to be living proof that modesty and fashion make a lovely combination. Moms need to model this also. Moms, if you are still sporting your 1980’s puffed sleeve, dropped waist floral dresses, it is time for a change, ladies! Teach your daughters to choose modest elements from fashion trends by the example you set.

I believe I have, to use Dr. Hamilton’s term, “stirred the pot” with this article! In the days since it was posted, comments here have reached fifty, comments on other blogs, on Facebook, and in personal emails to me have spiraled well into the hundreds. Additionally, the article has been featured on a national radio program.

http://www.crosstalkamerica.com/shows/2009/01/clothing_and_character.php

http://67.36.84.226/crosstalk2/ct090105.mp3

In all of these, I have received only three negative responses. After reflecting on those, here are some additional thoughts:

(1) @Rebecca: “Young people … might wear a low-rise jean and still be a great example of living the Christian life. From my journey at SBTS, it was how you lived your life, and how your treated your neighbor in walking your Christian journey that was of more importance that if some of your skin was exposed”: And yet, how I treat my neighbor is inseparable from my witness to the character of God in my neighbor’s presence. When a young woman in our culture exposes flesh in this way, what possible glory can this bring to God? How can this truly build up her neighbor? I stand by my earlier point that what our children wear reflects and shapes their souls–and I still contend that such clothing cannot shape the soul in positive ways.

(2) @Connie: “Why do you worry about clothing?”: These words of Jesus from the Gospels have to do with people worrying about whether God will provide them with sufficient food, shelter, and clothing–not with the appropriateness of clothes. My concern is whether Christians use their clothing in ways that bring honor and glory to God.

(3) @Doug@life2gether.wordpress.com: “I think it’s worth noting that even though his points are true, he seems to leave out the most important thing-–namely the heart and the gospel”: As I developed this, I was thinking more of the common grace that is present in parenting than of the results of the particular grace that God bestows on his children. As such, my suggestions had to do with what parents can do externally to shape the child’s inward being. That said, the more I consider your point, the more I am convinced that you’re correct. A fourth point needs to be added to address the heart and the Gospel. If this is published somewhere else, I’ll be certain to add that point. Good call!

And, by the way, we did find a great, modest light blue leotard, so we’re set for this year!

There was a comment from someone in education that did not think showing a bit of skin was that big of a deal–or seemed to be confused about what was and wasn’t appropriate. Sadly, because of the attitude around “it is their (guys) problem not mine”, the thought line above is not uncommon.

And yet, as Christians, are we not supposed to avoid causing someone else to stumble? So, with that in mind, shouldn’t we, as Christians, avoid wearing tight clothes, exposing ones body in such a way as to arouse the opposite sex (it can potentially go both ways here!)?

Fathers, yes, you certainly should be of the mindset of being the “fashion police” - you are to protect your daughter. Seriously, my grandfather used to say that if you are dressed like you are “in business” don’t be surprised when someone takes you up on the offer (inadvertent though it may be). You need to gently explain (from the beginning - ie little girls) why one does not dress in such a manner - fashionable or not. Do you REALLY want the boys at school thinking “those” kinds of thoughts about your daughter…and asking her for a date with those thoughts in mind?

The way I see it, if one can see front or back “cleavage” you have exposed too much. [...]

Blessings and thank you!!!
Debbie

need i say more?

thanks for the support and guidance.

I pick out there clothes and a good portion of what my wife wears. (I know to some this will be appalling to some.) Carol’s comments about the thrift store are 100% accurate. When I was convicted by GOD about “shamefacedness” this is the only place where I could find some clothes that would allow the women in my family to be shamefaced. My daughters and wife aren’t unhappy with it because they Love the Lord and know that I want myself and them to do what is pleasing unto his most Holy sight. Further, after studying the Word on this issue there really was not much objection the can be made to the scripture; it was just time to “do”. I have to thank GOD that my wife Loves Him, because if she didn’t it could create some dissension in the home. I just want to close by saying, to me it is a father’s role first. As God came to Adam regarding the sin in the Garden, he likewise will check with the father in regards to the attire of the family he’s been charged to guide.

Let GOD be true………

Let me first state that, truly, it is sinful for a man to look on a woman to lust after her. That should never be condoned or excused by any godly man or woman.

Secondly, what “turns a man on” should be treated with modesty. [...] Truly, it is the man’s responsibility to not take the second glance, but would people like you please stop creating the opportunity for the first glance!

Great article!

As a father of two young daughters, one of a similar age, I can appreciate your struggle and the loving stand that you take!

Good for you all!

Stacy MacDonald has a book entitled: “Raising Maidens of Virtue”. She clearly and lovingly addresses this and other issues on the raising of daughters.

May God bless you and Hannah and all the Jones family.

I agree with Carol the only place to find modest, feminine clothing today is the thrift store.

One answer to these shopping laments is thrift shops. Thrift shops are the only stores today that have modest, conservative, and classic styles—and all at very low prices. I have been an avid thrift shopper for many years, and I have a closet full of beautiful, modest, and feminine clothes for which I paid next to nothing.

I would explain how I felt, and why, and she not only came to understand, but would come home and share that she felt that some of her friends were rather foolish for dressing inappropriately, for example wearing short skirts and not wanting to hide their outfits even in cold weather.

When I was a student there I sat on the “Women’s Concerns” committee for a year and we couldn’t even manage to pass a dress code that banned bare midriffs in the classroom! If our seminaries don’t have any more sense that than, what is the hope for parents getting some help from the youth pastor who is a new grad from such an institution?

Kamilla

The other thing to note is especially in middle school girls dress more for other girls than for guys, and they usually do not think about the impact of clothing on their weaker brethren. Still I will take styles now over the extreme mini skirts and halter tops [...] of my teen years!