I COMPLETELY DISAGREE. I, personally, am saving myself until marriage and YES I expect to wed a virgin and YES I am “owed” a virgin. In a society were sex is everywhere, God completely understands how hard it can be to actually commit to saving yourself until marriage. So I believe that a person will rewarded for that.

I have no reason to settle for less that what i’ve bargained for. If he’s not virgin, he’s not for me, point blank.

That particular area of your response, is VERY discouraging and it sends the message that one has to settle for the person who’s already shared themselves with someone before them and find a way to satisfied with that. God’s greatest want would be for a man and woman (both virgins) to come together and share their pure love (without baggage and sexual history from someone else). Yes God, does “owe” me. He said it Himself.

who you marry is your own personal choice and it cannot be criticised simply because you have a standard you adhere to. people who are committed to marrying only a virgin are generally happy to remain unmarried if they cannot find such a one-I admire that, mostly such people don’t complain about being single because that is their choice. the same as a converted nonvirgin who choses to remain single because they are not ‘pure’ I admire that too.
I also admire the person who has the strength of character to pull away from sexual sin and chose chastity til marriage this is a hard slog too.
I am a virgin.
I struggle with the thought of marrying a nonvirgin, but not because of that persons past sin. but because it might lead me into the sin of bitterness jelousy fingerpointing and constantly reminding them of their sin. My sister is dating a virgin and she is not, he makes her feel bad often by this, not intentionally but simply by showing her up. I never want to do that.
also I don’t think it is a bad thing to want to marry a virgin the romance of it IS lovely. and that is Gods plan in perfection. We do have sexual sin in our midst past and present and it is a hard thing. I don’t want to accept this so I want a virgin, but I am not saying I will not accept it in a repented man. that is no more wrong than a non virgin wishing they were a virgin.

I currently like a young man (who probably does not know I exist) but the reason I like him so much is because of his checkered past, he was on drugs he lived with several girls and was engaged and he has changed by Gods power and I admire him so much for that. He is an example to every young person in our church because of his dedication to cleansing himself and being better than he is.

sadly the opinion of some in our church is that he is not good enough for the girls in the congregation because of his past, on the other hand are young men who have never sinned sexually in the same congregation are held up as examples and I cannot stand them they are arrogant ignorant and self righteous on the basis of their so called purity.

I want so badly to marry a young man who is a virgin but choices displayed I would chose a non virgin with a right heart every time.
But I STILL WANT A VIRGIN and nobody can take that from me and it is not a sin.
sometimes the attitudes going alongside are sinful but the desire itself is not a sin God himself says it is a good thing.

It is also NOT A SIN for a non virgin to want a virgin for a spouse because this is wanting a good thing from the Lord.
I do not condemn a non virgin for wanting this, I congratulate them because this means they want a good thing for themselves but also that they desire their spouse to be protected from the pain of that sin they have experienced them selves.
I would be saddened to find out if this young man I admire who is not a virgin is of the belief that he does not deserve a virgin because of his past. I believe he does just as much as any virgin.
I also want this for any repentant non virgin because God says he will give us all the best gifts. and lets face it virginity is the best gift. even if you have not got that to give any more you must agree.
I write with love to you all and I hope not to anger anybody with my thoughts.
Charlotte

Should I mention Matthew 5:17?

Everything in the OT applies to us in its fulfilled form. How does Christ fulfill “Thou shalt not kill?” Well, don’t kill. . . but I digress.

Have you not read this in your New Testament?

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Revelation 14:4
These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Once again, Christ’s bride is a virgin. OT and NT say the same thing.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but do you also celebrate Sukkot, Shabbat, or eat unleavened bread for the duration of Pesach?

These are also mandates from God in the Old Testament. If you keep the law, then there is no longer grace.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

High Priest according to the Law must marry virgins.

Lev. 21:13 And he shall take a wife in her virginity. 14 A widow or a divorced woman or a defiled woman or a harlot—these he shall not marry; but he shall take a virgin of his own people as wife. 15 Nor shall he profane his posterity among his people, for I the LORD sanctify him.

The Gospel say Christ cleanses His sinful bride, thus making her spotless and pure. . . a virgin.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

Christ cleanses us and this is a miracle. This miracle allowed Christ to fulfill the law as our High Priest. To take this beautiful picture and advocate acceptance of marriage to those lacking virginity is reaching.

Also, people forget that God made a woman’s body to bleed when losing her virginity. This is the blood of a marriage covenant.

Deu 22:13 “If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, 14 and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,’ 15 then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out the evidence of the young woman’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 And the young woman’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. 17 Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, “I found your daughter was not a virgin,” and yet these are the evidences of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18 Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; 19 and they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.

Notice how blood is proof of the commitment/marriage/covenant?

Also, premarital sex mandates marriage according to the Old Testament.

Deu. 22:28 “If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.

Again. . .

Ex. 22:16 If a man entices a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her to be his wife. 17 If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money according to the bride-price of virgins.

I find it a shame that people do not read their Old Testament!

Terry Mattingly, Director of the Washington Journalism Center at the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, author of the weekly “On Religion” column for Scripps Howard News Service, Founder of Get Religion.org, and author of the book, “Pop Goes Religion”, recently stated that results of a survey of young Roman Catholic Milennials, (age 18-29) showed that only 20% thought premarital sex is morally wrong. I doubt that percentage is vastly different in other American Christian denominations. Mr. Mattingly also reported, “You remember the ‘True Love Waits’ Movement, among Southern Baptists and supposedly at one time, Roman Catholics, I found it fascinating that many Southern Baptist Churches did not get involved in “True Love Waits’, not because young people weren’t willing to take the oath, but because it was embarrassing for their divorced parents to take the oath. Think about that.”

As far as this idea of entitlement goes, we all know that before God, no one is entitled to anything. You’re not entitled to marriage at all, but unlike some here, I choose not to demean marriage or criticize those who value it over and above singleness.

You know, as much denial as even the Church is in over all the destruction sexual immorality has caused, including the lives it has left in shambles, the only thing left to say is that it is appalling to continue to witness the assault on the remaining few who by God’s grace, have valued His Word on premarital virginity and taken it seriously.

I do understand what you are saying and will agree that I would also take this into consideration. But I am assuming any intended partner of yours would have to be a Christian, right?

On that premise, what happens if this man became a Christian as a young adult. And so when he was “in the world”, he had shared and partaken in the worldview of sex outside of marriage not being a big deal but now that he has surrendered his life to Christ, he now has a Christian worldview (as we all ought to) and thinks differently of sex, looking at it according to the standards that GOD has set out for us? Do you still hold his past against him, even though he is the man that GOD had intended for you all along and has been preparing for ? Believe me, stuff like this happens.

Mark me, I am not saying that there is something wrong with wanting someone who kept themselves sexually pure, but we do not always get what we want…even when we ask for it:).

“True chastity after a promiscuous lifestyle would involve complete renewing of the mind, and cutting ties with people and places associated with the behaviour. It isn’t enough just to say “it’s all in the past now” and act like it never happened.”

That is why in Romans 12:2, we are asked “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” The blood and grace of Jesus Christ is truly life changing and anyone can be changed when they have come in contact with Christ. No one would expect you to say “it’s all in the past now” and act like it never happened but at the same time we cannot constantly judge a person by their past and use it to solely determine that person’s character based on it.

“The desire for marriage to a godly spouse is not a sin.”
I have to say a godly spouse is not to be detemined on if that that person has a sexual past or not but based on if that person is daily submitting and subjecting themselves to the will and ways of GOD, if he or she has a Christian worldview and looks at Christ as Lord of his or her life.

Recreational dating is a bloodsport in which I have refused to participate. Am I deviant for not wanting to degrade myself in an attempt to please someone who will soon tire of me anyway? I find it sad that so many people from Christian backgrounds have absorbed worldly values to such an extent that remaining a virgin until marriage is an alien concept.

True chastity after a promiscuous lifestyle would involve complete renewing of the mind, and cutting ties with people and places associated with the behaviour. It isn’t enough just to say “it’s all in the past now” and act like it never happened.

The key verse about sexual sin:
1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

And no, we are not owed anything, but we are told to ask and we will receive.

Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

See also Matthew 18:19, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, Luke 11:9, John 14:13, John 15:7, John 15:16, John 16:23, James 1:5,
1 John 3:22; 1 John 5:14.

The desire for marriage to a godly spouse is not a sin.

Amen!

Better to remain single and broken-hearted, though, than to marry and be broken-hearted.

Millions of our young people are being seduced into a sexually corrupt lifestyle.

Some things cannot be undone. Both people will pay a huge price: The chaste person who remains single, and the person who has premarital sex who may be declined for a marriage.

Self-entitlement. Excellent choice of words. Was looking for that word but couldnt’ find it. Thanks Eloquorius. It just amazes me how people who call themselves Christians are unaware of their own follies of the heart. It is discussions like these that sometimes I wish that all Christians take basic courses in Christian theology at a reputable seminary.

It’s not that I’m offended, it’s merely that (the original article pointed out), your standard is self-derived (i.e., not in Scripture, it’s your own), self-serving (it’s has nothing to do with showing grace to others), and is utterly contrary to a entire message of the Gospel. In other words — and I’ll call it this way — you are acting in a way that is unbecoming of an evil, wretched, undeserving sinner who has been redeemed by a graceful God before whom you now stand blameless. If God chooses not to honor your Gospel-contradicting, self-derived super-standard for a spouse, and He thus chooses to keep you single, um, you honestly will have no one to blame but yourself. Simply put, Jack, you need to learn to love like Jesus before you attempt a Gospel-centered marriage.

Mr. Moore, pardon me for screaming on your blog, but THANK YOU!!!!! I’ve been involved in singles ministries, dating, etc. for over 10 years and it never ceases to amaze me the number of Christians (to be honest, nearly all women) who have remained sexually chaste and absolutely will not even consider a man who is not the same — even longtime singles who are now in their 30’s or 40’s who bemoan how God hasn’t provided them with their fellow virgin soul mate. If you pin ‘em down, the self-entitlement comes oozing out of the shadows of their heart. You statement is dead on because many I’ve run across do indeed have the notion that owes them for all their work as maintaining purity.

The most obvious and easily dealt with is the possibility of sexually transmitted disease. A clear test result sets that worry to rest.

A long line of ex-girlfriends, some of whom may have met his family and perhaps are still in contact. Imagine the awkwardness and pain of running into these women at the supermarket, at church, etc. You may be his wife, but these women have all had a piece of him.

He may even have a baby-mama or two in the background.

Jack, I don’t see how not establishing a relationship with a person you’re not romantically attracted/interested in is problematic from a Christian standpoint. If a Christian girl is not in to “nerdy guys” then she should date Christian guys who don’t fit that image (and vice versa). Romantic attraction cannot be helped. It is not a sin to think “No, he/she is not my type. I better not pursue this.” In fact, for both parties it is the right thing to do. However, I find it problematic to break up a relationship that has already been established because of some sin in the past that has been repented of (unlike sin that is currently going on). Like Dr. Moore said, just because you’re a virgin doesn’t mean God owes you one. If you like shy, awkward, nerdy girls who are virgins, all the blessings to you. But don’t think that just because a guy (or girl) decides to date (and eventually marry) a good-looking non-virgin is somehow spiritually compromising. The main issue that Dr. Moore tried to bring out is in dating relationships how we can manifest a Christlike attitude to those who repented of their sexual brokenness (which means we must be merciful to those who were broken by past transgressions, which is hard to do a lot of times in this area).

There is much in your post I don’t have any disagreements with. I certainly concur that a heart of willing forgiveness should be given to those believers who have a willingness to apologize and repent. I also certainly agree that no believer has a right to coerce another believer to become their employer, friend, and spouse. I don’t know anyone who would disagree with that.

I must disagree slightly on a particular point. I don’t believe it is a false hermeneutic of forgiveness to express something that Dr. Moore expressed in his response to that girl. Too many professing Christians today live in a way where their desires and wants triumph over what is actually good in God’s sight. For instance, the issue of marital compatibility. We all agree that Christians should not get romantically involved with people who are unbelievers or living unrepentant ungodly lives (we have that stated in Scripture). Having said that, do you think it is biblically spiritual to tell a person you’re dating (even if all the right pieces are in place): “Even though we are mutually attracted to each other and love the Lord, I think it is better if we break up because you enjoy outdoor activities and I enjoy reading books at home”? You see the problem?

Yes, the true gospel is a gospel of grace. If you and I had a discussion of theology privately you would know that I am a firm believer in the five solas of the Reformation and reject all the new aberrations promoted these days regarding the doctrine of justification (yes, you heard it, I believe the NPP is a serious heresy). However, that is only one side of the coin. What ever happened to biblically oriented duty and obligation? What about being sanctified not only in our actions but with our hearts as well? What about crucifying our own selfish desires for the glory of God and the good of our neighbors? Did you know that the Apostle Paul warned the Galatians that even attitudinal sins practiced as a way of life can bar one from the Kingdom of God (Gal 5:20-21)? That is why I am passionate about Christians not only getting their soteriology right but also their harmartiology. The way we live (and think) as Christians have eternal consequences, and sometimes those consequences are not merely about getting lots of rewards in heaven but where we will spend eternity.

I understand your point of view, but will still point out that you leveled an accusation of pride first, so it seems disingenuous to suggest that I alone was attributing motives.

Second, it’s difficult to read your last post where you are fully approving of a woman rejecting a guy for ‘nerdiness’, but not okay with rejecting for being a non-virgin.

In the same situation I think that I would encourage the girl rejecting the nerd to search her heart. Nerdiness is not a sin. Premarital sex IS. There are many young men who are quiet and somewhat awkward. Who will marry them? “Someone else”, no doubt. Maybe that girl is not exactly perfection either.

So we reject on a characteristic that does not reflect on character, but look the other way on a serious spiritual issue?

You were content to tell a virgin that they were not so ‘peachy-keen” that they should reject a non-virgin. Where is your similar advice for that girl? Would you not try to point out that she’s not “all that ” to be rejecting the same guy?

Personally, I’d rather marry a shy, awkward girl who is a a virgin, that the hottest girl in church if she’s been with a dozen guys. I don’t care how cute she is. I have trained myself to be attracted to character, so I am not a slave to physical attraction the same way most people are.

This is a valuable characteristic that is missing in the church today. Just as the body can be trained to desire healthy food instead of junk, the soul can be trained to desire Godly things like chastity and integrity.

By ENABLING AND ENCOURAGING young people to focus on attraction foremost, we have raised a generation of sensualists and harlots.

Why?
To do so places an extra-Biblical weight and guilt upon the shoulders of believers and most specifically, innocent parties. It is exactly this kind of false and dangerous notion of forgiveness that is used to enable and perpetuate wrong behavior and slipshod standards and little to no church discipline. It is also a form of emotional blackmail to slip things into the umbrella of forgiveness that don’t belong there in the first place.

Furthermore, we must not embrace an understanding of forgiveness that gives license to forgiven people to go around demanding that they be released from all of the consequences of their actions and life choices. I can and should expect all brothers and sisters in Christ to forgive me and be reconciled into the family of God, but I can’t force another believer to hire me, be my friend, elect me as elder or be my spouse.

Thanks be to God, every day of the year broken saints are restored to ministry, non-virgins marry virgins and damaged relationships are restored. This is the model. But I believe that we misrepresent the Gospel of grace when we coerce and demand believers to formulate sacred covenants with other believers without regard to track record or even compatibility, for that matter.

If you mean anger in this sense of unrighteous hatred towards a particular person here, then no. If you mean that I am rolling my eyes at some of the things I am reading here, then perhaps I am guilty of that. Just because I told Peter W. that he wasn’t “peachy-keen” himself wasn’t said out of unrighteous anger towards him, as you supposed. I was making a theological statement that is true of all of us: you, me, and everyone else posting (if you carefully read my response you would have known that). I also appreciate it if you next time truly assessed the situation before making a judgment call on my motives. This is a Christian blog forum let me remind you.

If I have expressed any prideful attitude towards people here then I apologize for that. But I am also a little taken aback by your dismissal about my theological/spiritual credentials because of some things I have posted here. And no, not all people who post on Christian internet blogs are scholars. God willing by his grace I plan to become an academic in a few years. I hope that I may use this knowledge for his Kingdom and the benefit of others instead of my own flesh.

I am a married man. I don’t have a personal stake on this issue like some young man in his early 20s writing these posts out of personal anger because he has made serious transgressions of this kind in the past. The reason why I write on the side of Dr. Moore on this issue is because I have found many professing Christians who have no clue on how to articulate a biblically sound harmatiology, especially as it relates to Christian living. This also affects the way they understand dating, how to relate with their boyfriend/girlfriend, and what appropriate judgment choices to make in evaluating the relationship.

Is it wrong of me to tell people how wrong they are on a certain issue when I can use Scripture and reason to back up my arguments? Is that really pompous and prideful? Perhaps it is not pride but a sense of frustration on my part because I figure I expect all true Christians to be well-knowledged in Scripture and theology.

A Christian woman rejecting a “nerdy guy” at church she is not interested in is a whole different can of worms to discuss. In fact, I would exhort the woman to respectfully not give into his advances if she is not romantically interested in him at all. If he is a mature Christian he would understand and move on and find someone who is interested in him. I would even say that the woman is sinning against the nerdy guy if she goes out with him with the pretense that she is interested when she is not (it is called lying).

In regards to breaking off a dating relationship because the person is a non-virgin even if the person has truly repented and bears the fruits of genuine faith I find biblically problematic. If all the right cards are there (e.g., mutual romantic feelings, mutual love for Christ, etc.) then I don’t see how a transgression (or transgressions) of the past that has truly been repented of and forgiven can be taken into such serious account that it will lead to a termination of the relationship. There something there that just doesn’t seem spiritually right.

James, who decides that past sexual transgressions should be put in a special category when determining whether a person you’re dating is of marriageable quality? So, are you saying that a previous history of financial fraud, drunkenness, drug abuse, witchcraft, etc. should not be really considered problematic as much as a previous history of sexual immorality? That just doesn’t seem right to me. I thought we as Christians are to forgive just as God forgave us in Christ (Eph 4:32). Telling a non-virgin Christian you are dating that he or she is unqualified to be their future spouse sounds a bit unrighteously judgmental and even prideful to say the least.

I have heard this view before from some pastors (that sex automatically equals marriage). I don’t know how an honest exegete can come up with that conclusion even based on Paul’s strong language in 1 Cor 6:15-16. One way to refute this view is found in Jesus’ encounter with the Samaritan woman at the well. In John 4:18, Jesus tells the Samaritan woman that the man she is currently with is not her husband–even though they are doing things together that go “beyond the boundaries” (and no, they weren’t just going on innocent dates at the local eateries). That passage alone should refute the “sex = marriage” view.

I think your view that a Christian man who once “played the field” should be dumped by the Christian woman is a very simplistic solution. I don’t see it as being biblically reasonable to exhort people to break off their dating relationships with so-and-so even if he or she currently lives a godly and obedient life to the Lord.

Honestly if a guy or girl told you she had 50 previous partners, wouldn’t that be a reason to pause? Not out of pride?

We aren’t “owed” a beautiful spouse, or even a spouse at all. But that doesn’t stop us from being discriminating in our choices. Please ladies, do consider that God changes hearts, but don’t feel like its a sin if you don’t marry the nerdy church guy you don’t like, or if you can’t overlook a guy’s shady past.

It has nothing to do with forgiveness. This is a crucial mistake that many people, including yourself, continue to make. Of course I know that all are sinners.

I simply would like a fresh start emotionally and sexually in marriage, and have been cautious to be able to provide the same to my future wife.

Additionally, two commenters just above me have shown some of the scriptural reasoning why I have a point.

I’m not inclined to heed the boast about your knowledge of spiritual “nuts and bolts”. Please pardon my skepticism at your self-stated ‘credentials’. On the internet, everyone is an expert, you know.

Your pride problem is preventing you from seeing that I do not have a sin problem.

I know what I want, and will either get it or remain single. Both are acceptable outcomes. The gibes of message-board pharisees are not likely to sway my opinion.

Anyway, the way you used the term “peachy-keen” - I could totally sense the anger you felt as you typed that . Certainly not the calm, deliberative comment I would expect from a scholar.

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

My advice to you or to anyone whose motives have been harshly and immediately challenged before all of the facts have even come in is this: just walk away from that person, graciously and without malice. Ask God to change your motives if they are indeed evil or sinful, but we are wise to doubt a judgmental person’s words and accusations.

Whoever said we expressed hate towards virgins? Nor do I find it offensive. In fact, I commend you for keeping yourself pure in a world filled with sexual immorality.

However, just like you said you’re “sorry if me being a virgin and wanting a virgin is patently offensive to some,” I also apologize for me being theologically educated and knowing more about the nuts of bolts of theology than many people that may cause offensive to some.

I just think people who insist on only being wedded to virgins don’t really have anything to substantiate their views based on good theology. Obviously, Christians like you also have a sin problem: an attitudinal sin problem because you can’t forgive the person who has already been forgiven by our Lord based on his work on the cross.

Jack, I disagree with your assertion. I think if a Christian becomes anguished because he or she later found out that the person they were dating was a non-virgin is an issue of pride or selfishness. Why be anguished? Because that person is not going to give you that virginity even if he or she has been cleansed of that sin? Even if the person you’re dating has all the qualities that make him or her a faithful Christian you’re going to kick that person to the curb for losing virginity that has been repented of? Also, I don’t think 1 Corintians 8:7-13 applies in this case. Paul was talking about activities done by mature Christians that may cause stumbling of immature Christians.