The sin of porn breeds and grows in secrecy, so the Lord has taught me to GET IT OUT!!!

I even recently had to install a program on a server that I can’t install CE on, to let my accountability partner know when I had logged onto and logged out of a computer I occasionally used, so he would know to ask me about my time on that computer.

It’s amazing to find freedom. But I have to be conscious of the temptation at all times. For my sake, my wife’s sake, and the Lord’s sake!

As a Unitarian, should I be offended? Or should I assume you’re endorsing polyamory?

The analogy doesn’t work, and there’s no need to take a cheap shot at a different religion. You’re smarter than that.

If a guy is honestly devastated by his sin and honestly wants it dead - regardless of how confident he is that it will not surface again - there is no healing greater than knowing that the woman he loves is on his side. I don’t take my wife’s forgiveness for granted. I don’t think she was obligated to marry me after learning how I had failed. But the fact that she did was what - in my mind - finally sealed once and for all the fact that I’d never really fail again. I couldn’t do that to her after what she did for me.

I am all for men finding forgiveness, restoration and victory over sin through Christ, but I am also for protecting our daughters’ purity - both before and after marriage. When I read some of the women’s heartbreaking stories in the comment section of the Oct. post and also here, I was reminded of similar tales I heard as a pastor’s wife. Some women came to me privately to discuss things they were too embarassed to share with their own pastors. It was painfully obvious that these men had not been making love to their
wives - they had been using them as props as they continued having sex in their minds with a thousand porn actresses where they had been living in fantasy land for years before they got married. Pregnancy and childbirth just made the problem worse. A spiritually healthy husband delights in his wife because he is loving HER (not an illusory internet model) - therefore, her new role as ‘mother’ doesn’t change his desire for her. If anything, it only increases. Not so with many men who struggle with pornography - for such a man, motherhood makes it more difficult for him to use her as a surrogate porn star. Inability for the man to function, anger toward her as the cause, and pressure for her to actually interact with pornography also, is often the sad, downward spiral into weird territory. It was heartbreaking to watch
these beautiful, young moms cope with the fact that their marriages were crumbling because of this all-encompassing sin that had been programming their husbands for years. If only they had been warned before the wedding.

This is ugly, ugly business indeed. While Christian leaders rightly denounce pornography, I think there still remains a deceptively subtle ‘boys will be boys’ attitude. A man struggling with pornography is not a good candidate for marriage. Period. He has no business proposing that a daughter of Christ enter into an impure union (which is what such a marriage would be). He must first eradicate the porn from his life completely for a significant length of
time before considering marriage. That might sound like a hard line attitude but it is only because we have coddled this sin for far too long. Imagine if a man says, “You know I really struggle with materialism. I am bombarded with these images everywhere - new car advertisements, billboards featuring
pricey designer clothes, all the expensive techno gadgets everywhere. So sometimes when the temptation is too much, I go ahead and pilfer some cash out of my co-workers purse when she’s not looking. I slip in the unlocked backdoor of my neighbor and take their expensive stuff which I then sell on e-bay. I take the money and use it to go on a fancy trip. When I get back from my trip, I do feel guilty about it and swear I’ll never do it again. But then a week later I really start craving a good dinner at Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse, so I pick a few pockets….”

You get the idea. We don’t respond with, “He’s ’struggling with materialism’.” We say, “He’s stealing!” That is because we don’t coddle the sin of stealing the way we coddle the sin of lust. Even in the church. Is there forgiveness and healing for a thief? Absolutely. (ex. thief on the cross) But if the man in
the scenario above confesses that he has ‘ongoing struggles with materialism’ via burglary, pickpocketing, etc., no sane Biblical counselor would suggest to the young lady that it was wise to enter into marriage under these circumstances with merely ’safeguards’ in place.

Similarly, ’safeguards’ are well and good for a man seeking to gain control over himself when it comes to pornography, but why in the world should a woman be dragged into this scenario? Does this not undermine the Scriptural teaching that wives are to submit, honor, and respect their husbands? How does a wife simultaneously respect her husband, while also playing the part of his internet cop, parole officer, administrator of unexpected search and seizures, etc.?
I am not even sure what that is supposed to look like. Again, if it was your own daughter I don’t think you would be very quick to hand her over to a potential son-in-law who had been imbibing a steady diet of porn for thousands of hours which he admits is an ‘ongoing struggle’.

Perhaps we are looking at this from different angles. I am taking the view of a protective mom of two daughters while you are taking the view from ‘the guys’ angle. However I also have four sons and I well understand the challenges of them growing up in a highly sexualized culture where scantily clad women are ubiquitous and it seems everyone is in bed 24/7 - on HBO and the rooftops of churches. (ex. Ed Young stunt) On a typical Sunday morning church service, I see both teenage girls and fifty year old women dress in such a way as to show as much skin as possible, be it short shorts or plunging necklines. This undoubtedly contributes to men’s ongoing struggles with lust. No man in modern society escapes these temptations. However, I don’t see that ‘ongoing
struggles with lust’ necessarily translates to ‘ongoing struggles with pornography’. The former might include the woman who plops in front of a man at church with
the low riding, thong exposing jeans. The man didn’t invite this scenario or the struggle against lust it provokes. This seems to me far different from the latter, in which a conscious choice is made to use pornography. That men will have an ongoing struggle with lust is a given - that men will have an ongoing struggle withpornography should not be a given.

This brings me to a few points of your advice I find puzzling. You say, “What worries me about your situation is not that your potential husband has a weakness for pornography, but that you are just now finding out about it.” Huh?? You would NOT be worried about a potential husband with a weakness for pornography? Again, let us return to the hypothetical suitor for the Moore daughter’s hand in marriage. A twenty four year old young man has slipped an engagement ring on your daughter’s hand and a few weeks later, he fesses up that he owns an extensive library of triple X-rated DVDs collected over the past seven years. You DON’T find that worrisome?? Your objection would only be that of timing of the confession?? I am not sure that there is such a thing as ‘proper timing’ for such a revelation. If this were confessed on the third date, I very much doubt there would even be a fourth date.

Maybe I am misreading you, but I detect a sort of dualism in your response. On one hand the message is ‘yes..porn is very sinful and destructive’ but on the other is a subtle form of that ‘boys will be boys’ attitude which is why there seems to be no decisive course of action offered to this girl. I assume you are looking at the matter more from a practical level and the sad reality is that a high percentage of men involve themselves with pornography, thanks in large part to the internet. What used to be obtained only through forrays into adult bookstores are now readily available through just a few clicks on the computer. But the ease of access doesn’t render the sin any less harmful. If anything, quick availability is what should cause us to put our guard up. If Eve had to shimmy up to the tallest tree branches to reach the forbidden fruit, the Fall was still a possibility but much more unlikely. But if Satan seduced her and directed her attention to fruit on a low lying branch within easy reach, the stakes just went up.

The internet and cable has significantly raised the stakes for all men, but there is still a choice to be made. Grasping the fruit is not a forgone conclusion for any man (or for that matter, any woman). Tempted and even salivating at the prospect? Sure. Grabbing and hungrily scarfing down every last morsel? No. We should not view indulgence as a forgone conclusion when God does not. “No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.” (1 Cor 10:13)

I mean no disrespect Dr. Moore, but your vague non-answer
to this girl seems to imply that she should just ‘get over it’ in terms of expectations for a non-pornographic husband because the statistics are working against her,. That she
should go ahead and settle for a man who is presently (not repented of and buried in the distant past) but presently in the grip of such sin. Are you seriously proposing that
she should pay more attention to current percentage figures of how many go astray in this manner, than to the admonitions of Paul in 1 Thes. 4:3-8? …”It is God’s will that you should be
sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.”

The average single, Christian woman today is not expecting a perfect, sinless man, but…good grief…she should expect that she will be able to drive the future kiddies to their piano lessons without wondering and worrying what hubby is doing at the house. All alone. Is that really too much to ask? Would you not be sick inside if it was your daugher crying to you on the phone because she is living day in and day out with constant suspicions, anxiety, confrontation with creeping perversions, and doubts about her own beauty and self-worth?

As flumoxed as I was by what I consider insufficient counsel for this fiancee, I was even more bewildered that an important line in this girl’s plea for guidance was virtually ignored. She
wrote, “I was kind of floored by this because I hadn’t known anything about it until now. One of the things that drew me to this man was his call to gospel ministry.”

So this wasn’t just your average Joe, run of the mill pornographer. This was a pornographer who claims a call to gospel ministry and may indeed even be currently training for just such a career. Well, that’s just peachy. One would think that the dean of one of the largest seminaries in the country might have a thing or two to say about this factoid. And nary a word from you on the subject? As I read this girl’s account of the problem, it was that line that struck me as the big elephant in the room. More than that, the big elephant in the room doing back flips.

It seems to me that not only should marriage be forestalled until this sin is positively slain, but perhaps seminary studies should be temporarily laid aside as well. If this man is studying theology for personal, spiritual edification, that is one thing. But more likely, he is attending in preparation for a career. There are many careers in which a physical, psychological or moral defect renders the person unfit for the job. A man is foolish to spend time and money to attend flight school, if he knows he has poor vision which prohibits him from obtaining a pilot’s license. If a man is squeamish and faints at the sight of blood, going to medical school to become a surgeon is not recommended.

Similarly, if a man is attending seminary to obtain a position as an overseer in the church when he is presently involved with pornography, should he not be reminded that he is disqualified in his present state, according to 1 Timothy 3? Not only do the requirements that he be sober-minded and self-controlled come to mind, but most relevantly, the requirement that he is ‘the husband of one wife’ or a ‘one woman man’ (verse 2). The ‘one woman man’ translation is best, as it is in keeping with Paul’s theme in the passage which is a long list of character traits. To narrowly view this requirement as one of marital status (as I have heard some misinterpret) is to miss Paul’s point entirely. What Paul is really getting at is this - what sort of man is this? Is he a ‘one woman man’, faithful in body and heart? Often times a man is ‘the husband of one wife’ in a legal sense but he is not a ‘one woman man’ in his behaviour.

The implications of this requirement for a man who has an ongoing struggle with pornography is obvious. If he is gratifying himself via pornographic images of dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of women he finds online
(women who are incidentally someone’s daughter, someone’s sister, and also created in the image of God), he is most assuredly not a ‘one woman man’. He should suspend his seminary studies towards this vocationuntil he has fully repented and turned from this sin for good. If he does not, what will happen once he graduates? At that point, he is already invested in the ministry as his vocation. In all liklihood, he will take a position in a local church. Who knows how the ramifications of his pornography addiction will play itself out? It may wound only his own soul and that of his wife or it may escalate until it is publicly known and hurts not only his church but the witness of the gospel to an unbelieving, cynical world.

Consider Joe Barron, associate minister at Prestonwood in Dallas, who was arrested for online solicitation of a minor. Barron had been chatting online in sexually explicit terms for weeks with who he believed to be a thirteen year old girl living in Bryan, TX. The ‘young girl’ was actually an undercover detective. Barron encouraged her to skip school and meet him at a predetermined location. He drove three hours to the rendezvous point, only to be greeted by law enforcement. Barron was taken into custody and a search of his car yielded a webcam, headset, and condoms. I don’t know Mr. Barron but I seriously doubt that he woke up one morning and suddenly, out of the blue, decided to start some kind of lewd online conversation with minor girls. This sad tale is the end result of a progressive sin that had likely been going on for a long time. Police recovered his computer to discover that, no surprise, he had a consuming pornography habit.

It is my understanding that pornography use is especially high (surprisingly) among seminary students. There are probably all sorts of reasons for this - the delay of marriage, the committment to abstain from pre-marital relations, the general temptations that come to everyone in our hyper-sexed society. I am not without sympathy. I realize that not every such student will go the way of Joe Barron, but we dare not treat in too casual a manner the fact that so many of our future church leaders are apparently skating on the same slippery slope. Stop to consider…what if Barron’s pattern of behaviour did stretch all the way back to his seminary days? What if there were men of authority and influence over his life who were aware of his struggles? Would not the most prudent counsel have been that he should suspend his ministerial pursuits until his heart was properly cleansed and he met the qualifications outlined by the Apostle Paul? I note that all of the character traits listed by Paul are in the present tense - not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money, able to teach, hospitable, respectable, self-controlled, etc. It doesn’t seem that Paul is saying prospective elders/pastors could have never ever in the past been violent, inhospitable, a lover of money, and such. Only that they are not at the present. They are now transformed men. Perhaps with the right mentorship, those who are not currently living up to the ‘one woman man’ model will be convicted of the seriousness of this matter and allow Christ to work the change in heart that only He can.

But I’m realizing that that’s the best attitude he could have. He knows he shouldn’t think he’s invulnerable. He knows it’s important to have other men in his life and to rely on Jesus. To say “here and now, the struggle isn’t over, but in heaven the battle is won.” He could only say he fights it by Jesus’ power and by grounding himself in grace that all sins are forgiven. And he told me that he loves only me, I’m the only woman that he’s ever loved.

He held me and let me grieve that though we were both physically virgins, his mind was not. But my mind wasn’t either, and I couldn’t pretend that! He let me ask questions and bring it up when I needed to talk about it.

I wasn’t sure how it might affect our sexual relationship, but I’m so grateful, he truly has put me first in it. I’m very blessed.

So… I’m learning that I can trust my husband with all of myself. And yet, that ultimately I trust Jesus because I can’t place all of my hope or well-being on if my husband struggles with pornography or not. I truly hope that our marriage will continue strong and both of us pure for each other. The Lord is our hope.

Last, read the following from 1 Thessalonians 4,

3 It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should learn to control your own body[a] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5 not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; 6 and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister.[b] The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. 7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.

Remember, God’s word is the Truth and the Bible is clear. Your knight can overcome and draw near to God, and his testimony will be greater for your marriage when he comes though having slayed this dragon.

The fact that the fiance used the word “ongoing” is your red flag, red banner actually to halt things because it will not get better but worse if it continues to be “ongoing” and if he has not transparent accountability of men getting in his face.

This sin is as one person posted a powerful one because it seeks to destroy God’s image bearers and our divine inspired ability to be in transparent relationships that have the ability to create life (humans).

The death and destruction my estranged husband’s addiction brought was unfathomable and it has caused me to doubt my womanhood, if I had known he had the addiction to porn (that then led to him sleeping with women and other deviant behavior in reality btw because this sin cannot be contained, it takes no survivors!) I would have ran as well.

Also if marriage is your desire above God as well then that as needs to be put in check, if that is the motivator keeping you from walking away from this, the fear in your mind that you will be “alone” then you need to examine your motives as well See I have never felt more lonely then in my marriage to this sex addict because I never had my husband’s heart nor mind nor body but realized in the end due to porn I was sharing him with a myriad of other people (btw porn addiction cycle raises the stakes higher and higher because the high deadens at a certain level many times and so the desire for more and many times more deviant types occurs, just like a drug addict that ends up taking more and more to get the high because of a tolerance to the drug they developed, I saw this happen with my estranged husband).

I never want to experience the sort of abandonment and loneliness I have experienced by being married to a man who has an “ongoing” addiction to porn ever, ever again, and if that means I stay single into eternity once my divorce goes through (btw my estranged husband is still actively sleeping with other people), then so bet it- because I know that God’s is faithful and I have His fidelity no matter what! Praise God He revealed this to you now because having to leave my marriage is one the most unnatural (God never intended for covenant breaking) and devastating experiences, an I could have saved myself this devastation knowing what you know now.

Nice of you to “out” your husband’s (former boyfriend’s?) sin on a public blog. Please be mindful that your desire to be heard and be included in a conversation on this issue might harm someone in the process.

Part 1.

I do see what you are saying in regards to Edward’s (the vampire) restraint of himself but the way the analogy was being used was to show the installment of tactful, intentional barriers as well as the reliance on others (primarily Christ) as our means of restraint NOT to encourage merely white knuckling it like a sexy, self controlled vampire. Therefore, Wolfman takes the cake for the better analogy.

Part 2.

Who cares.

The end

I think Russell’s entry is solid, but I would say more strongly, as you have, that the wedding needs to be put on hold for now. Even without knowing the specifics of the sin, I would strongly recommend this drastic measure. And my wife would agree. She’s actually the person who has helped me understand this issue better than anyone else. She works with women who have been victims of trafficking, and she’s heard stories from other women who have been scarred by the sexual sins of their husbands, and she has helped me better understand the destructive potential it has on the women who are in relationship with the struggling or addicted men.

I think postponing the wedding is a must for several reasons:

1. This sin WILL destroy your marriage. If you knew your fiance was going to cheat on you repeatedly throughout marriage, you would walk away before it started to spare yourself the pain. This is no different. This is a form of adultery, and my wife has made it very clear that for me to look at porn once is equivalent to me sleeping with another woman and will be the end of our marriage. I thought that was extreme when she first told me. But now I fully agree with her, and wish more women would take the same approach. I think the reason I thought it was extreme is because I’ve been influenced by a culture, especially within the church, that minimizes the severity of this issue because it is so common. It is receiving gratification from someone or something that is not your wife. That can only be classified as infidelity. A woman would be completely justified in leaving the relationship.

2. The guy needs to know that you are dead serious about him getting this resolved. This sin is so destructive it ought to make every man stop whatever he is doing until he is free. It ought to terrify him to the point of taking extreme measures to protect himself and his future wife. If you don’t see it as serious enough to postpone your wedding, then he won’t take it seriously enough to effectively address his addiction. This is a make or break issue and he needs more than just hearing you say that. He needs to see you back it up.

3. You need time to talk to women who have been there. It’s likely that everyone won’t feel as strongly as my wife, but you probably don’t know how you’ll feel until you’re already in the situation. And at that point, if you decide that it’s too much for you to handle, then divorce becomes your best option. Any woman would tell you that you don’t want to get to that point. Ask as many women as you can what it was like for them to go through their husband’s addiction. Ask especially the ones who said it was too much and had to leave. Those are the ones you really need to hear from because maybe they’ll help you decide what you can and can’t live with. I don’t think you’ll know how you will feel until you’re actually in the situation, but the more informed your decision can be, the better prepared you are. And especially if talking to these women convinces you that the pain you will endure in marriage to this man is too much, then now is the time to know that.

My wife knows a woman who was sexually abused as a child, later became pregnant while still single, was married and then divorced, was diagnosed with and then survived breast cancer, but after all that, when her new husband revealed an addiction to pornography, only then did she shake her fist at God and say “THIS is more than I can handle.”

Please don’t minimize the destruction this sin will cause. Please weigh carefully what you need and be willing to take drastic measures to protect yourself from pain like none you have ever known before.

I pray you’ll find direction in this decision. I pray your fiancee will find freedom from that sin. But mostly I pray that you’ll be strong enough to show him that if this sin remains, then you will not.

Cheers,
Tim

Yep, I would say the same thing. If they are engaged and she’s just now finding out, that’s a big problem. How she found out is probably important as well. But I would advise her to wait! Wait wait wait! And see if there is any sanctification, if there is any fighting for purity on his part.

My husband kept his addiction a secret from me until over a year into our marriage. He fights it, and has experienced much sanctification, but it almost destroyed us, and still has the potential to, four years later. If I’d known beforehand, I would have waited. Nothing is so destructive to a wife as knowing her husband is unfaithful. It affects a wife’s ability to fully give herself to him, it makes a man selfish during intimate moments, and it creates a lack of trust that can destroy a marriage.

Please, wait. And if he didn’t tell you but you found out another way, then run. Run for your life.

A good friend of mine just broke up with her boyfriend after he finally confessed his addiction to pornography. What was most disconcerting to my friend was not his struggle, but his surrender to it: he told her that he expected this to be life-long and he could not promise to be forever faithful to her in this regard. He excused and defended himself, and tried to tell her that she needed to forgive him for it. He wasn’t willing to fight against his sin.

What women want is not perfect men, but men who are willing to fight. I hope that I also can learn to be a sin-fighting wife. All for the glory of God.

My life and marriage was a picture on what happens when you live as the “wolf man” day in and day out. Night in and night out. I was a whore to self-pleasure. God sent His silver bullet-like Holy Spirit and pierced my heart. Losing my marriage, almost losing custody of my sons’, stepping down from ministry, and God opening my eyes to the horror of what my choices had contributed to broke me. My Father is now remaking me. I’m apart of His story. Everyday is a fight. Every minute to be honest. But I look to my Christ and wait on Him. I am grateful for His kindness on me. His mercy. His unrelenting love.

To the guy reading this that is absolutely terrified. Don’t alleviate your anxiety by thinking you can continue to run and hide further and father away. The only place you have to run is further into the darkness. Drink from THE Living Water. What you drink in secret is sewage water. There is no condemnation for those in Jesus Christ. Don’t be fueled by shame and guilt. Don’t be ruled by what other people might think if you tell someone about your problem. Rest in Christ’s death and resurrection. If you are in Him then His death and resurrection is yours. His righteousness is yours. His reward is yours. His Father is yours. Those images, self pleasure, and acting out partners will only increase your thirst. Sadly, I know from experience. If you need someone to talk to please contact me: clintnadeau@gmail.com
I’m praying for you.