Comments on: Does Typology Require Sovereignty? http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/ By Russell D. Moore. Russell D. Moore serves as the teaching pastor at Highview Baptist Church in Louisville, Ky. In addition, Dr. Moore is the Dean of the School of Theology and Senior Vice President for Academic Administration at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Find sermons and other resources to help Christians engage the culture from a biblical worldview at www.russellmoore.com. Sun, 26 May 2013 09:14:05 +0000 By: Robert Betz http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-178446 Robert Betz Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:24:34 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-178446 If God is only partially sovereign then he is a slave to the wiles of human kind and the decisions of others. Only God has true free will to "will and to act"and only God can write history and weave a Salvation for all mankind with His mighty hand. Dr. Boyd seems to feel a need to give God room to breath when things that are not easily explained (by us) happen. RMB If God is only partially sovereign then he is a slave to the wiles of human kind and the decisions of others. Only God has true free will to “will and to act”and only God can write history and weave a Salvation for all mankind with His mighty hand. Dr. Boyd seems to feel a need to give God room to breath when things that are not easily explained (by us) happen.

RMB

]]> By: Oliver Perry http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-175905 Oliver Perry Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:32:34 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-175905 God's sovereignty is a precious truth to be received by faith. But a concept much too large for little men to explain. God’s sovereignty is a precious truth to be received by faith. But a concept much too large for little men to explain.

]]> By: Oliver Perry http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-175904 Oliver Perry Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:28:09 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-175904 Let God be true, but every man a liar. (ladies included) God is righteous in all His judgments. He is always fair. He is always impartial. His offer of the gift of eternal life to all is sincere. Man is responsible for his choices. Some choose Christ. Some choose the Devil. We persuade men. We pray for them. We weep over them. That is our responsibility. The final choice must be theirs. Some harden their hearts against the wooing of the Spirit as He convicts them of sin, of righteousness, and judgment. What seems to be missing today is not learned discourses but Spirit empowered preaching on sin, righteousness and judgment. We need revival. Amen.. Let God be true, but every man a liar. (ladies included)
God is righteous in all His judgments. He is always fair. He is always impartial. His offer of the gift of eternal life to all is sincere. Man is responsible for his choices. Some choose Christ. Some choose the Devil. We persuade men. We pray for them. We weep over them. That is our responsibility. The final choice must be theirs. Some harden their hearts against the wooing of the Spirit as He convicts them of sin, of righteousness, and judgment. What seems to be missing today is not learned discourses but Spirit empowered preaching on sin, righteousness and judgment. We need revival. Amen..

]]> By: Steven http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-175268 Steven Thu, 01 Mar 2012 20:05:41 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-175268 I don't think Dr. Moore was suggesting that Boyd doesn't believe in God's sovereignly but rather a type of view of the future that is not in line with the "classical" understanding of sovereignty. My question for Boyd and other open-theists (which is one I could never answer) is that while part of the future is settled e.g. events such as Christ's clothes being gambled, those events rely on countless other events to happen in order for that prophecy to take place, that I can't understand how God could leave the future partially open without knowing with certainty all the contingent events leading up to the fulfillment of prophecy. I don’t think Dr. Moore was suggesting that Boyd doesn’t believe in God’s sovereignly but rather a type of view of the future that is not in line with the “classical” understanding of sovereignty.

My question for Boyd and other open-theists (which is one I could never answer) is that while part of the future is settled e.g. events such as Christ’s clothes being gambled, those events rely on countless other events to happen in order for that prophecy to take place, that I can’t understand how God could leave the future partially open without knowing with certainty all the contingent events leading up to the fulfillment of prophecy.

]]> By: T. C. Moore http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-175252 T. C. Moore Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:10:54 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-175252 Greg Boyd most certainly does believe in God's sovereignty, because "sovereignty" wasn't invented by Augustine or Calvin. God's sovereignty is his reign over the cosmos—however he chooses to exercise it. Boyd believes God reigns over the cosmos. Therefore, Boyd believes in God's sovereignty. Anyone who wishes to discredit Boyd of belief in God's sovereignty does so on the basis of their biased opinion of how God exercises his reign. Stop drinking Calvinist kool-aid. Greg Boyd most certainly does believe in God’s sovereignty, because “sovereignty” wasn’t invented by Augustine or Calvin. God’s sovereignty is his reign over the cosmos—however he chooses to exercise it. Boyd believes God reigns over the cosmos. Therefore, Boyd believes in God’s sovereignty. Anyone who wishes to discredit Boyd of belief in God’s sovereignty does so on the basis of their biased opinion of how God exercises his reign.

Stop drinking Calvinist kool-aid.

]]> By: Steven http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-175239 Steven Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:01:57 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-175239 Dr. Moore- I really appreciated this post as well as your support for Dr. Boyd's warfare worldview. As a post-boydian who is now reformed I still found myself fond of his views regarding spiritual warfare. However much of the warfare worldview hinges on open-theism. My question is what are the things that you appreciate and are concerned about regarding the warfare worldview? Let me know! I attend Covenant Seminary and would love considering doing an independent study on this subject! Dr. Moore-

I really appreciated this post as well as your support for Dr. Boyd’s warfare worldview. As a post-boydian who is now reformed I still found myself fond of his views regarding spiritual warfare. However much of the warfare worldview hinges on open-theism. My question is what are the things that you appreciate and are concerned about regarding the warfare worldview? Let me know! I attend Covenant Seminary and would love considering doing an independent study on this subject!

]]> By: karla foisy http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174888 karla foisy Wed, 29 Feb 2012 03:18:11 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174888 @Josh Waulk, My understanding of Greg's position on the future and God's role in it is just like Moore says: It is partly open and partly settled. God, of course, will assure that the final outcome is according to his ultimate plan of redemption, but he allows us to be free in our choices within that ultimate plan. With that said, he did not gamble that Mary would say "yes" or that Pilate would say, "Okay, fine", because he has certain parts of the future settled in order to fulfill his ultimate plan for the salvation/redemption of his creation. God is still God, but he also gives us the responsibility of making choices that align with his will. We are given the choice to love him and love others; to be stewards of his creation.... I don't understand how all of the commands in the Bible apply if God controls all we do in the first place. How do we enter into authentic relationship with a God that controls our decision? @Josh Waulk,
My understanding of Greg’s position on the future and God’s role in it is just like Moore says: It is partly open and partly settled. God, of course, will assure that the final outcome is according to his ultimate plan of redemption, but he allows us to be free in our choices within that ultimate plan.
With that said, he did not gamble that Mary would say “yes” or that Pilate would say, “Okay, fine”, because he has certain parts of the future settled in order to fulfill his ultimate plan for the salvation/redemption of his creation.
God is still God, but he also gives us the responsibility of making choices that align with his will. We are given the choice to love him and love others; to be stewards of his creation….
I don’t understand how all of the commands in the Bible apply if God controls all we do in the first place. How do we enter into authentic relationship with a God that controls our decision?

]]> By: Rande Greene http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174800 Rande Greene Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:29:06 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174800 Boyd's book entitled "Satan and the Problem of Evil" is a wonderful book. It does support the "warfare theodicy" and does it in a skillful manner. Boyd’s book entitled “Satan and the Problem of Evil” is a wonderful book. It does support the “warfare theodicy” and does it in a skillful manner.

]]> By: Our Picks « Fides Viva http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174790 Our Picks « Fides Viva Tue, 28 Feb 2012 18:08:36 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174790 [...] Open Theism & Biblical Typology – Here is a wonderfully thoughtful little essay by Russ Moore regarding the compatibility of open theism and types that are revealed in Scripture. [...] [...] Open Theism & Biblical Typology – Here is a wonderfully thoughtful little essay by Russ Moore regarding the compatibility of open theism and types that are revealed in Scripture. [...]

]]> By: Brett Jensen http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174788 Brett Jensen Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:59:25 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174788 How is this different than the first few centuries of Rabbinic law? Christians call Jews out all the time for taking the Torah and patching it with a thousand different things that aren't in the Torah at all. This entire thing is nothing but a discussion of "How MUCH of everything does god know?" Huh!!? How is this different than the first few centuries of Rabbinic law? Christians call Jews out all the time for taking the Torah and patching it with a thousand different things that aren’t in the Torah at all.

This entire thing is nothing but a discussion of “How MUCH of everything does god know?”

Huh!!?

]]> By: Matthew A. Bryan http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174758 Matthew A. Bryan Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:11:37 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174758 If someone does not hold to a biblical understanding of God's sovereignty, they do not believe in God's sovereignty. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to credit Boyd with a belief in God's sovereignty. He believes in an idol much stronger, wiser and more knowledgeable than any human, but it is an idol, nonetheless, and the biblical God is at war with such demonic forces, and He will win. If someone does not hold to a biblical understanding of God’s sovereignty, they do not believe in God’s sovereignty. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to credit Boyd with a belief in God’s sovereignty. He believes in an idol much stronger, wiser and more knowledgeable than any human, but it is an idol, nonetheless, and the biblical God is at war with such demonic forces, and He will win.

]]> By: Worth a Look 2.28.12 – Trevin Wax http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174702 Worth a Look 2.28.12 – Trevin Wax Tue, 28 Feb 2012 08:03:38 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174702 [...] Does Typology Require Sovereignty? As far as it goes, many of the types of Christ in the Old Testament narrative are workable in an open theist framework. After all, God is always planning an Incarnation (Eph. 1:10), and much of what it means for Jesus to be Jesus is based solely on his own character and his own mission. But there’s more to typology. [...] [...] Does Typology Require Sovereignty? As far as it goes, many of the types of Christ in the Old Testament narrative are workable in an open theist framework. After all, God is always planning an Incarnation (Eph. 1:10), and much of what it means for Jesus to be Jesus is based solely on his own character and his own mission. But there’s more to typology. [...]

]]> By: Brian Huggins http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174666 Brian Huggins Tue, 28 Feb 2012 02:23:18 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174666 All things lead to the sovereignty of God, and through it. We may not understand the means to this end but a Sovereign God cannot be sovereign unless He is sovereign over all. Man is (still) desperate to play some kind of role (or affect some type of outcome) in justification, and even sanctification, but we easily lose sight of the fact that everything that has happened or will happen is for God to glorify His Son. He has not left it up to 'chance' or 'choice' when His love demands that His Son be glorified. That would not be a wise choice by God to leave this up to me. Only my pride would say otherwise. For since before time began God had determined when, how, where, and to what extent I would be used by Him to glorify His Son. Through grace or by mercy He will not fail His Son. All things lead to the sovereignty of God, and through it. We may not understand the means to this end but a Sovereign God cannot be sovereign unless He is sovereign over all. Man is (still) desperate to play some kind of role (or affect some type of outcome) in justification, and even sanctification, but we easily lose sight of the fact that everything that has happened or will happen is for God to glorify His Son. He has not left it up to ‘chance’ or ‘choice’ when His love demands that His Son be glorified. That would not be a wise choice by God to leave this up to me. Only my pride would say otherwise. For since before time began God had determined when, how, where, and to what extent I would be used by Him to glorify His Son. Through grace or by mercy He will not fail His Son.

]]> By: Jeremy Weart http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174609 Jeremy Weart Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:39:03 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174609 @Jeremy Weart, Oops, the title of his book is, "A Call To Spiritual Reformation." @Jeremy Weart, Oops, the title of his book is, “A Call To Spiritual Reformation.”

]]> By: Jeremy Weart http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174608 Jeremy Weart Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:38:00 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174608 I have spent the last 20 years reading and thinking about Divine sovereignty and human freedom (I prefer "human choice" since, due to our sinful nature, we are not actually free but rather slaves to sin). The absolute best explanation I have found comes from D. A. Carson in his book, "Spiritual Reformation," where he dedicates an entire chapter to this issue. It is succinct, precise, exegetical and theologically sound. I have spent the last 20 years reading and thinking about Divine sovereignty and human freedom (I prefer “human choice” since, due to our sinful nature, we are not actually free but rather slaves to sin). The absolute best explanation I have found comes from D. A. Carson in his book, “Spiritual Reformation,” where he dedicates an entire chapter to this issue. It is succinct, precise, exegetical and theologically sound.

]]> By: Barbara Jackson http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174607 Barbara Jackson Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:36:33 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174607 @Josh Waulk, There really should be a "like" button for this comment. *Like.* @Josh Waulk,

There really should be a “like” button for this comment.

*Like.*

]]> By: Josh Waulk http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174588 Josh Waulk Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:30:52 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174588 So, God would have opposed the SBC's opposition to gambling, on the basis that he himself is an avid gambler of cosmic proportions. That is, He gambled that Mary would say "yes", that Pilate would say "OK, fine", and that no less than one human being would say "yes" to a resurrected Jesus. Can you imagine the scene in heaven if all of us dead-according-to-Paul-but-still-capable-of-exercising-our-free-will-humans had decided against Jesus? Now, that's a story line that takes some kind of faith. I'll take the Omni-God of the Bible, please, Greg. So, God would have opposed the SBC’s opposition to gambling, on the basis that he himself is an avid gambler of cosmic proportions.

That is, He gambled that Mary would say “yes”, that Pilate would say “OK, fine”, and that no less than one human being would say “yes” to a resurrected Jesus.

Can you imagine the scene in heaven if all of us dead-according-to-Paul-but-still-capable-of-exercising-our-free-will-humans had decided against Jesus?

Now, that’s a story line that takes some kind of faith.

I’ll take the Omni-God of the Bible, please, Greg.

]]> By: Disciple of Thecla http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174579 Disciple of Thecla Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:31:47 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174579 Near the end when you began to mention Judas Iscariot, I began to think about free will and prophecy. I see no contradiction between the two because human free will fulfills divine prophecy. Instead of being contradictory, they fit together hand-in-glove. Even though something is prophecied, humans maintain free will, so they must face the results or consequences of their chosen actions. Near the end when you began to mention Judas Iscariot, I began to think about free will and prophecy. I see no contradiction between the two because human free will fulfills divine prophecy. Instead of being contradictory, they fit together hand-in-glove. Even though something is prophecied, humans maintain free will, so they must face the results or consequences of their chosen actions.

]]> By: Eric Barrett http://www.russellmoore.com/2012/02/27/does-typology-require-sovereignty/#comment-174576 Eric Barrett Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:12:25 +0000 http://www.russellmoore.com/?p=8485#comment-174576 While I'm not a fan of Open Theism, I have a warm spot in my heart for Greg Boyd. I heard him speak back when I was an atheist, and it was the first time I heard a truly "intellectual" response for why God could exist. It changed my life. While I’m not a fan of Open Theism, I have a warm spot in my heart for Greg Boyd. I heard him speak back when I was an atheist, and it was the first time I heard a truly “intellectual” response for why God could exist. It changed my life.

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