A Conversation on Church Discipline
— Tuesday, November 24th, 2009 —
A lot of people have asked me recently about whether it’s okay to let a church member undergoing discipline “resign” from membership, just prior to excommunication. This is kind of, I guess, similar to Richard Nixon quitting the presidency when it looks like he doesn’t have the votes in the House to avoid impeachment.
My friend Greg Wills, a Baptist historian and expert on church discipline, and I were recently walking into a conference together, and I stopped and asked him about it. Listen to this “Moore to the Point Micropoint” about this issue, and let me know what you think.
Dr. Moore (and Dr. Wills),
Thank you so much for posting this conversation. I recently was going through this same issue, where a man attempted to avoid the ongoing church discipline practice of our church by simply not attending and then seeking to remove his membership. Your comments helped to encourage those of us who stood firm on the Biblical witness and command.
We concluded that since we were in that process prior to his decision to leave, we felt his decision played no basis in our continual efforts and we would instead continue to follow the Biblical pattern.
In a sense, it may have been easier on me as a pastor to just let him walk…no doubt, we will have some that will be quite upset, but the easy thing is not always the Biblical thing, as we know.
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This was three minutes of gold. You addressed what Dr. Wills called a “unilateral” action. Do you allow for a “bilateral” separation of an Acts 15.36-41 variety? Are there situations where there is no moral failure or doctrinal heresy (i.e. matters of corrective discipline) but with significant enough reasons to merit humble, agreeable separation?
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We have a clause at Karis that says you can’t opt out in the middle of discipline. One thing we talk about in the membership class is that when we covenant together, we ask each other to chase after us when we try to leave. We ask for accountability that doesn’t give up easily. They’re asking the church to not just let them throw down their toys and leave.
Here is the wording in our covenant.
I covenant to follow the biblical procedures of church discipline and submit myself to discipline if the need should ever arise (Mt. 18:15-17; Gal. 6:1-5, 1 Cor. 5). I realize that this covenant serves as a guideline for loving discipline designed to effect repentance and restoration, and that I cannot revoke my membership in the midst of the discipline process. I understand that absolute confidentiality in relationships with my brothers and sisters prevents obedience to Christ in the practice of biblical church discipline and therefore should not be promised or expected.
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As a legal protection, we have the following statement in our Bylaws under the last item under Termination of Church Membership:
“d. erasure upon request of the member or upon joining another church.
Resignations from membership are possible only by members who are in good standing and who are not under any disciplinary action.”
All members must sign indicating their agreement with the Bylaws prior to becoming members.
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@Walter Price, that’s a good example of bud-nipping.
@Walter Price, If you are under the assumption that this clause offers the least bit of ” legal protection” you are sadly mistaken. Several churches ( including one in my area that was liquidated in bankruptcy court after losing a civil suit) have paid a huge price for chasing ” justice” . In the case in my area the elders sent a representative to the plaintiffs workplace when she refused to answer calls & correspondence from the church. They then declared her guilty in a special church meeting and slandered her by disclosing her sin. The problem is their evidence didn’t hold up to judicial review as most of it was hearsay and witnesses refused to appear. The jury returned a judgment of $675,000 that the church’s insurance didn’t cover. What was once a wonderful bible teaching church is now owned by a national daycare chain. The pastor formed a new church that meets in a community center. They kept about 1/3 of their members so they can only afford a part-time pastor and had to let everyone else go. When the youth director left, everyone with teenagers found other churches. Every time I drive by that building and see the outline on the roof where the new owners removed the cross / sign I wonder if they should have just let her leave. Write her a letter, privately admonish her to repentance and let her go. God can convict his people that are in sin without churches being destroyed when we attempt to help him in that effort a bit too much. That church had the best mens bible study I have ever attended and I will always miss it.
I would like to answer this question by saying “No, it is not okay to let the member resign.”
A few words about this answer:
1. I am currently at work and unable to listen to the micropoint so my comment is not in regards to that.
2. My comment is based mostly upon experience (which I usually frown upon) because I have been there.
In 2005 I was this guy who tried to “resign” before excommunication. I was living in open, unrepentant sin and my church was following the Bible and pursuing church discipline. After many months, I tried to resign my membership and just make the whole thing go away.
My pastor refused to allow this. His goal was not excommunication or the removal of my membership. His goal was repentance and restoration.
I was subsequently removed from the membership by a vote.
Within a few months, God’s spirit so worked in my heart to move me to repentance. I privately repented of my sin and publically did so. I was restored to my wife, my church, and my God.
I am grateful that my pastor did not “let” me resign. God used his promise and way of discipline to bring me back.
So, I would say that it is not okay because the goal is not removal, but restoration.
Scott
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That was a very good answer, though I personally cant even imagine it. From the inference the pastor spent some time talking to this person under discipline. I have never seen that actually happen, church discipline had two purposes, getting rid of people who question the leadership, and as retaliation. I have been given the left foot of fellowship one time in my life, it took about 1 minute, which of course is five minutes to long. In that I lost every friend, fellowship in two churches and ten years of service. As completely irrelevant as that is that is basically happen in church discipline.
I have been told church discipline is to gain repentance and restoration, I wish that was not said because it is just plain not true. I have been a Christian for 29 years and have never, not one time ever seen it used for that, ever, even with the people wanted restoration, even begged for it, even on their knees. But other then that it sounds good.
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This approach to discipline really only works in a culture of formal or legal membership. In the churches whose culture is that of membership-by-association, it is more difficult to stop people leaving; there is nothing to resign from. This is also an issue when you have a lot of people in your church who are adherents, ie. short of being ‘business members’.
Also interesting is that from what I have seen over the years, most formal discipline cases (ie, when things get to the point that someone is kicked out of the church), are actually for dissent. One friend of mine in my own fellowship was asked to go recently for just that; basically, for being a troublemaker. In other circumstances, such as adultery, people have moved on /before/ the problem has become apparent to the church leadership.
BJ’s point above is a good one, and sometimes the appropriate sanction is to ask people to go, ie. short of a formal disciplinary procedure.
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Being from a tradition that does not require formal membership, it is hard to fully identify with the details of the issue. It’s a shame some folks will do anything to avoid discipline.
We have a loose affiliation, if you come you belong. I have seen many folks come to faith in Christ slowly, over a period of months or even years, as they are repeatedly exposed to scripture, the love of Jesus, and the call to repentance.
It (non-membership) has weaknesses for sure, but I think it allows us to reach those who are turned off by religious formality.
Those who are disposed to run, will probably run in either case.
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I hadn’t seen Brian’s comments at #6 before my own post was written, but it might help you understand why a clumsy approach to discipline issues has weakened the sanction for everyone else.
There is a separate issue as to what discipline should be brought into play for. An unmarried couple you think are fornicating away, to the chagrin of the other singles? Perhaps, on the basis of “pour encourager les autres”. Financial bad faith from one member of the congregation to the other? Much more justifiable (am thinking of a case when this should have been done). But then, one for the single men …. how about dating the pastor’s daughter and botching the job? ;-)
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