I’m a Complementarian Man With an Egalitarian Wife; Can I Pastor?
— Wednesday, March 30th, 2011 —
As regular readers of this site know, I invite folks to write in their questions about personal ethical dilemmas. The way it works is this: read the question below, and let me know in the comments what you think I ought to advise him. Then I’ll weigh in in a little bit.
Dear Dr. Moore,
I am a young evangelical minister, currently serving as an associate pastor in a church. I believe God has called me to serve as a senior pastor. I read your Q&E commentary a while back about the doctrinally-divided couple wondering if they should marry. I’ve got a problem that may be similar, but I think is also quite different.
I’m committed to what some would call a “traditionalist” Christian view of gender roles. I believe a husband is to be head of the household, to be the servant leader of his wife (Eph. 5:22ff). I also believe, as the confession of faith of your denomination puts it, “while both men and women are gifted for service in the church, only men as qualified by Scripture are called to serve in the office of pastor.” I am what, I suppose, would be called in our contemporary evangelical lingo a “complementarian.”
I am married to a godly, loving, very gifted woman. She loves Jesus and knows his word. She’s also a committed feminist. By that, I don’t mean that she’s a radical or anything. But she is what some would call an “egalitarian.” She believes both men and women are called to the office of pastor, that women can teach men or do anything men can do in the church, and that husbands and wives are to “submit to one another” (Eph. 5:21), so that neither leads the home but decisions are made by consensus.
I am not wondering if she’s the right woman for me. First, we’re already married and, second, I wouldn’t have it any other way. She is the love of my life. My question is, can I serve as a pastor with this situation as it is? Must my wife and I have agreement on an issue that will be so directly relevant to how I preach, teach, counsel, and lead the congregations God calls me to serve? Will this be confusing to the people to whom I am ministering?
In or out of ministry? What should I do?
A Complementarian Man
Readers, what do you think? Advise this brother and sister in the comments below. Oh, and send me your ethical dilemma to questions@russellmoore.com. If selected for Q&E, I’ll answer here confidentially.
By all means, serve. Just be open and above board. As you navigate your relationship with one another in a public sphere, you could be a great encouragement to other couples in similar situations. It’s not unethical not to have an issue like this unresolved. If you wait to serve until you are absolutely certain of everything…you’ll never serve or you’ll do so under an illusion. :)
I’d be prepared to take a beating about it, though. We evangelicals tend to have, ah, unrealistic expectations of our leaders.
You say about your wife’s egalitarian convictions that “you wouldn’t have it any other way.”
Certainly you shouldn’t want to have a different wife. As you’ve rightly affirmed, you are already married and she is the one you’ve covenanted with for life. But does this mean you can’t want her to change her views on women in pastoral roles in the church? Does this mean you shouldn’t pray that the Holy Spirit will convict her of the truth, and that you shouldn’t try to show her in Scripture why you believe the way you do?
I’m confused. Why would you have it one way in your congregation, but another way (and no other) at home?
It does seem to me that this is the starting point and that this issue should be resolved first at home before you will be able to lead a whole body of believers in this truth from the pulpit.
@Candice Watters, I could be wrong, but I read it as him not wanting another wife.
@ Beth, by his actions, he is indeed saying that he would not want his wife to change her beliefs. He also clearly has misgivings about the duplicity of teaching a congregation one thing and living another.
@ A Complementarian Man: In light of the admonition in I Timothy, the congregation will rightly be confused if your home is not being ordered the way you are teaching them to order their own homes.
Yes, you will confuse then people you lead unless you “shut up” about your complementarian convictions. Additionally, you will likely lead a typical American congregation that is mostly female and evangelistically ineffective with young, single men and young husbands/fathers. If your present ministry is fruitful, stay there.
@Kevin Smith, you wrote “Additionally, you will likely lead a typical American congregation that is mostly female and evangelistically ineffective with young, single men and young husbands/fathers.”
What do you mean by this? Are you saying this is a fruit of confusing people over the egalitarian/complementarian issue, or are you saying that this is the current population of the American congregation and must be taken into account when making this decision?
I totally get this dilemma. My husband and I haven’t sorted it out, though he isn’t called to serve as a senior pastor (at least, so far).
My dilemma is similar, though from a wife’s perspective: Can I support my husband and our church’s complementarian teaching publicly, living under the restraints that it places on me, all the while personally (and privately) holding to egalitarian views? Is this deceptive, or is this the way we all should handle such disagreements? Taking this approach opens all sorts of sub-dilemmas, like how should I respond if someone comes to me privately with questions on this? May I give my personal view, must I give my husband’s view, or can I share both? The latter, if done well, could be a powerful example of disagreeing in a loving, respectful, edifying yet ultimately still united way.
I personally struggle with keeping my views completely to myself. It doesn’t feel honest. Yet I see how it could be seen as divisive and insubordinate for me to talk openly and publicly, as well. I yearn for a third way, a way that demonstrates respect for and submission to the clear teaching of our church, yet also respects my own position (for it is not a salvation issue) and allows me to speak of it.
If we, as you suggest, remain out of public leadership until we come to closer agreement, that day may never come. I’ve been egalitarian since I was old enough to understand the issue.
I look forward to reading the remaining responses.
@Joy Bennett, you express very well what I am dealing with now. I go to a strong comp church. My husband has been a default comp over the years. I wouldn’t call myself an egalitarian (I prefer “non-hierarchial complementarian”) but few comps would agree w/ how I read Scripture in this area.
We’ve been examining these issues together since we started dating but there is the issue now of what do we do if we are asked to lead a small group in our church - or, as the denomination terms it, if HE is asked to lead the small group and I am asked to “help” him.
How would that look - esp., if he is considered the leader and I am not but I don’t think that should be the case. Do we serve in a counter-cultural way? Would I be in faith to serve in that way.
I’m not sure if I know any couple that is in complete agreement on all Christian doctrines. I believe that the above issue is non-essential for salvation so it would not render your ministry ineffective.
I know a number if people who are committed to the Gospel with an egalitarian view. To them, they interpret texts concerning gender roles as Paul addressing specific situations and not delivering timeless commands. They see it as a matter of interpretational context and not hard-hearted rebellion. Regardless, I don’t feel it’s an issue to break fellowship over. Nor do I feel your wife’s view will result in a “typical,” “ineffective” congregation.
Re: “I’m not sure if I know any couple that is in complete agreement on all Christian doctrines.”
-As far as I know, my wife and I are; also, as far as I know, the other co-teacher in my Sunday school class and his wife are in complete doctrinal agreement. I’m just writing this to assert that such agreement is not impossible, and it may be a worthy goal.
@Andrew Lindsey, Add me and my wife to your list. Her biblical submission works as scripture says it would…it holds me completely accountable and in fear of Who we place first in our marriage. It is a beautiful, complementary, biblical marriage.
@Andrew Lindsey, … but especially Brett
Are you then saying that only a “complementary” marriage is biblical? … the passage in Eph.5 clearly begins with v.21, (it contains the only verb in this section, as you must know).
I have been married now for 45 yrs … my husband and I consider each other in love … he does what he is gifted to do, and encourages and supports me in all I am gifted to do - and I do the same. We are even more deeply in love now, thanks be to God! …. the complementarian view can cause severe problems in a marriage, and frankly, there are enough stresses and strains on modern marriages without adding another. let me finish with John …”Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God’
I’m having the same problem; but am not married yet. Want to be pastor in some years, but it doesn’t seem to me she would change her mind on that. Should I marry her? Or should I give up to become pastor?
@jonathan,
Coming from a former feminist type background and egalitarian (although I didn’t know that was the word then for it) and now complementarian and married - I would kinda of wonder if the egalitarian view on behalf of your girlfriend (and possibly future wife?) is rooted in something more. What I mean is that it seems that *most* women I meet who hold to this view aren’t really too focused on the scriptural argument, and often have other challenges and issues with male leadership, and often perceive that they can’t be intelligent women leading in the church unless they believe in all roles being open to women. I would encourage you to dig a little bit over time through graceful and thoughtful conversations to see if there is more to the egalitarian view than is sitting on the surface. Personally - it wasn’t until I felt confident in my role as a woman, wife, and other things that women struggle with that I realized my holding to women in leadership was really based on personal concerns and fears about being that “typical” ministry/christian type of wife. Make sense?
@jonathan,
I would urge you to thoroughly discuss and resolve this issue before marrying someone who doesn’t share your beliefs on this very important subject. If you are called to be a pastor, marrying a woman who disagrees with you about gender roles could close the door on ministry opportunities as well as create a lot of strife and family conflict. See John Piper’s article on questions to ask when preparing for marriage: http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/questions-to-ask-when-preparing-for-marriage
Can she understand and accept the fact that you will lead that church and she is to be a support and help mate to you? If not, it will be a lonely road or a road of compromises that waters down your ministry.
My wife and I fall in this same conversation. When we first married, I believed that being the leader of the household was to be the one calling the shots, making all the decisions, my word was final say. Oh how ignorant we men can be!
Leadership within a marriage is not about being commander and chief. Instead leadership in a marriage is about being the first to sacrifice, the first to suffer, and the first to give respect. The issue of complementarian vs egalitarian is not so much about doctrinal stances and salvation, it is simply one of miscommunication. Most men are complementarian and most women are egalitarian (hasty generalization).
Men are complimentarian because we feel the great responsibility of being the head of household. But leadership is not a solo act about status and recognition. Leadership involves wise counsel, delegation, sacrifice, and servitude.
Women are egalitarian because they feel very capable in a position of leadership. They have an ability to teach and make tough decisions and stay at the office late changing their fantasy football lineups…wait, scratch that last one. My wife, like most women, don’t want to be told that they are not capable of doing something. I agree, I would be a feminist too if I was told that some jobs are only for men. But when asked, most women do not feel called to be pastors.
So, if we are doing are jobs as a husband, we are encouraging our wife in her gifts, talents, and calling. I find that i can better communicate with my wife when I am not starting off with what she cannot do. I also find that God has ordained our marriage in this beautiful partnership, where she is fully capable of leading and fully capable of supporting me in my leadership. I bet if you ask your wife if she is called to be a pastor she would say no….but her point would be that a woman could be a pastor.
I prefer to have a male pastor and I do believe that we can make arguments for that role to be more suited for a man, but I also think this issue goes to our head easily and we start to become dogmatic about a man’s abilities to lead over a woman’s. When we see our role as the leader, most of the time, we see the status, recognition, and glory; but if we truly understand our position as leaders, then we realize the humility, servitude, and sacrifice that comes with it.
@Kenny, I greatly appreciate your heart in the matter, but have two questions.
In your environment, what does submission mean? What happens when she does not agree with you?
Secondly, concerning women as pastors, I think the Scriptural teaching is pretty clear: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.” 1 Timothy 2:12-14
The argument is not cultural. It is based in creation. We are just so buried in feminism we don’t understand that the argument for egalitarianism is cultural, not biblical.
Just some thoughts.
@Kenny,
It’s unfair to make such generalised statements painting the bulk of women as egalitarian. I think that you may have misunderstood our roles as having been created ‘equal’ in the creation order as image bearers for God, and yet fulfilling a different role than men within this order. To be submissive is not somehow for a woman to be ’subjugated’, as it were. We are not under the dominion of men, we are under the dominion of God. However, God has called us to submit to a specific order of things, and because we willingly submit to God, we submit to that order. As a complimentarian, and a woman, that’s what I believe. It doesn’t make me less of a person than any man. I’m at seminary right now working on two master’s degrees, and believe me, there are enough men and women here who would like to put me in the egalitarian driver’s seat! But the simple fact that I’m a woman with an advanced degree does not make me an egalitarian. Please let me submit! Don’t paint the roles of complimentarian and egalitarian as broad as the brush-strokes that give men and women pants or skirts.
I do like what you say in the last portion of your final paragraph. It is a joy to fall under the leadership of someone who understands his position to be one of servant leadership rather than that of a small dictatorship. I rather think that the whole egalitarian movement seems to be a backlash against these small dictatorships, and that if more of us truly understood what servant leadership was, women would not have such an apoplectic fit about submitting themselves to it. As it is, it’s a shame that servant leaders are generally very humble and less easy to hear over the roar of the very loud dictators, and so it’s often the dictators who make a name for our complimentarian brothers. I’m glad for a discussion like this.
@Jay
Submission in our house is to put the other’s interests before our own…
What happens when she disagrees with me? Well, the same thing that happens when I disagree with her… we communicate and hear each other out. I do not believe that I have the final say simply because I am the man, unless she wants me to have the last say on the matter. I think we both have the responsibility to listen carefully to each other and come to an agreement…or agreement to disagree.
@Jaye
I know a hasty generalization is unfair, but to take a poll on this thing would take way too long…that is why I said that it was a generalization
I don’t think we are disagreeing on God’s creation and the different roles…I was merely pointing out how easy it is for men to think of themselves as the leader and therefore lose sight that marriage is a partnership and not a man in charge with a woman quietly following. I know plenty of women that prefer that, but like the guy who posted the original question, my wife isn’t like that. This is written for them. I do appreciate your comment, though.
Also, I would like to point out that you had to validate your credentials to be heard. You are well thought out and I know you know your stuff, but you had to pull the education card to emphasize your point. You are kind of proving my point by doing that. My point was that most women can accept a complimentarian view as long as it doesn’t make the woman’s role viewed as a lesser weaker role. It’s not that women do not want to accept a role of supporting a husband in leadership, but most men (another generalization) will see that as a weakness and become stubborn and unflexible because that’s what they thought their wife wanted.
I am pointing out that the complimentarian view needs a balance of knowing roles while respecting and empowering the women in the relationship. Thanks for your comment
@Kenny,
“Men are complimentarian because we feel the great responsibility of being the head of household…”
“Women are egalitarian because they feel very capable in a position of leadership…”
The thoughts of many in the replys to this post are most discouraging.
Kenny, twice you define labels by how the man or woman FEELS. This is so typical of our culture that has been feminized by the feminists. We live in an emotion driven culture.
What should define our roles is not the culture nor how we FEEL about things. Our roles are defined by God as He has communicated them through His Word.
It is clear from God’s Word that men are the leaders, protectors, providers, heads of families. Women are the helpmeets and keepers of the home. There is much in that and it isn’t a caveman with a club standing over his barefoot and pregnant wife.
Men are the leaders and heads of families because God SAYS that is their role, not because he feels a responsibility. It is there whether he FEELS it or not.
A woman is not egalitarian because of how she FEELS. It is because she is not willing to submit to the truth of God’s Word. In other words, she is being rebellious.
Until we understand that even as believers we continually fight and rebel against God and need to run to Him for the grace and strength to obey that which we do not want to obey (because we don’t FEEL like it) then we will continue do these slippery slopes.
The original question by a pastor with a wife who is “egalitarian” should not be in the ministry period. His own family is not in order and hence - it would disqualify him for ministry according to God’s Word. A hard truth but a truth none the less no matter how we FEEL about it.
@Bev,
I am not so sure I agree with your statement: “A woman is not egalitarian because of how she FEELS. It is because she is not willing to submit to the truth of God’s Word. In other words, she is being rebellious.”
Many women are egalitarian because of feelings (and lack of scriptural study and review of the issue of women in leadership) and many other women are egalitarian because they feel they have studied the topic, and come to the conclusion from scripture that their position is warranted. I don’t agree with their view, however, it feels like you are making a rather large assumption that a woman (or women in general) are egalitarian because they are not willing to submit to the truth of God’s word. People who hold various views of scripture that we may not agree with often don’t believe they themselves are intentionally being rebellious by holding their position. I just wanted to comment on your statement because I think this issue is something to process through with egalitarian women, and not just assume we know the heart and reasons why a woman may hold to that position.
@Kenny,
exactly! that is how my marriage works also … I have been blessed with a truly godly husband who loves me deeply enough to consider my needs before his own. He shows Christ’s love to me and I am blessed.
I grew up in Complementarian churches, and because of the way the Bible was taught (very one-sidely) never thought about rebelling, but I was deeply unhappy and could not use my gifts at all. I thank God for my husband who was confident enough in my love to encourage me to read, and to study, to find out what the Bible was really saying - I had to know! I arrived at much the same conclusions as you did.
As long as both of you can live in submission to (and not teach contrary to) your Church’s Statement of Faith, it should not be a problem. This will be the test in more areas than just this one! But, if your wife will not submit to your headship on this, as both her husband and her pastor, I would think it best for you to serve in another area of ministry.
I think it depends on where you are going to pastor. I”m a complementarian, I believe it’s the biblical view (unless you spend great effort doing hermeneutical gymnastics in 1 Cor. 14, 1 Tim. 2, Ephesians 5, Genesis 2, etc.).
So, if you don’t hold those convictions very strongly and pastor at a church that could have a woman or a man in the role as Senior Pastor, then I don’t think it would matter what your wife’s convictions are.
Now, it was mentioned that the egalitarian/complementarian view is not essential to salvtion- true. However, it is still important to the every day lay person and even more vital to the man who’s been called to lead a church.
So, to keep this brief, my answer would be NO- if you are going to pastor a church that holds the biblical views of complementarianism. Your wife’s ministry would be counter productive to yours and you would not be modeling a biblical marriage. It would be too confusing to the people for you to preach one thing, but live another…
Didn’t the apostle Paul address this in penning, “he must rule his own household well?”
You actually have a bigger problem than what to do about your future ministry. Eventually you and your wife will be faced with some situation where both of you are firmly planted on opposite sides of a very important issue where consensus is just not possible. You will have tried all avenues to resolve the problem, but are still on opposite sides. The issue will be very important and will require a decision. At that point, what do you do? If your wife is still firmly in the egalitarian camp, you will have a very bad situation on your hands…one that could even lead to a divorce!
In describing how these conflicts are supposed to work out, John Piper put it this way (paraphrased): The husband should lead the wife in doing everything possible to arrive at a conclusion that is acceptable to both. But if that conclusion is not possible, then it is the husband who makes the final call and the wife must support him in that call with all her being, holding her marriage and her husband above any issue that may come up.
I have witnessed this occur in two occasions, both involving serious decisions about the direction when raising older children. In both cases, the wife wouldn’t back down from her position. In one case, the husband finally acquiesced in order to save the marriage, but to this day harbors deep resentment toward his wife because she usurped his authority, holding the marriage hostage to her desires. The other case is ongoing and has a very real possibility of ending in divorce.
So not only does this difference between you and your wife have very personal implications, but these implications could very well torpedo your ministry in the future. You really need to resolve the question now, for your sake, for your family’s sake, and for your ministry’s sake.
Absolutely not. One of the qualifications for a leader as outlined in Titus (and elsewhere) is that he must lead his household in the truth. If your wife A. rejects your headship and B. holds a view anti-thetical to the Scripture because of her preconceived secular ideas then no, you are not qualified to be a pastor. How can you lead a church when your own wife refuses to honor you as a leader? How can you contradict those who spread dissent and false teaching when your own wife does so? Ultimately, it comes down to respect for the Scripture. Rejecting God’s Word because she is a feminist is no different than a theistic evolutionist or a “Christian” universalist: Scripture must always be supreme, in all issues it speaks clearly.
While this is not a salvation issue, it is one central to church order and leadership. One can be a devout, born again Christian and have unbelieving children, or a wife who rejects the parts of the Bible she doesn’t like. But Scripture is clear that those are issues that preclude a man from leadership.
Now, if you want to leave the evangelical realm and pastor at a liberal church then it’s not a problem. But trying to lead a church that holds fast to the Scriptures can only end in disaster.
@John Balog - the best response of the bunch. I’m in complete agreement.
@John Balog, while I understand and concur with some of your statements, you may want to re-think your comment regarding believing children. First, that statement is only found in Titus (not Timothy) and can mean obedient children, not those who are saved. If you believe it to mean saved, at what age will you require your children to be saved by; 10, 12, 14? If they are not, will you resign? Furthermore, if you believe Titus is speaking of having believing children, then shouldn’t a pastor have believing children in order to pastor (or at least have children?) The text says, If any be above reproach, the husband of one wife, having believing children, not accused of debauchery or insubordination… You are painting yourself into a corner by implying that Titus is referring to having children who are saved.
The issue here is about contradictory ways of living. This man is content to live in his home in an egalitarian relationship. He said he would have it no other way. Well, it would seem that he would place himself or his wife under a severe burden to either (a) pastor an egalitarian church or (b) force his egalitarian wife to submit in a complementarian church. So, I’m not sure he can, in full faith, lead and counsel others in a complementarian way, while living an egalitarian marriage.
@Nathan,
You are correct in that I overstated and interposed my personal view into the case. My apologies, been leading a study on Titus and so my brain has been in that realm. You are also correct in pinting out that the pastor in question will not be able to provide council to married folks without either compromising his beliefs or being a hypocrite. “The Bible teachs this and you should do it, even though I do not.”
@John Balog,
Thank you!! I was hoping that someone would get to biblical qualifications. ‘House in order’.
I don’t believe that this automatically disqualifies you as a pastor, but I would say that this circumstance is your first great lesson/test in leadership. The admonishments to run your household well are present because the family household is a microcosm of the church family and believe me when I say that you will be faced daily with leading people into a better understanding of the scriptures. Even the most orthodox churches are filled with a plurality of beliefs, opinions and hunches about the doctrine of the church.
I became an associate pastor six months after marrying my wife and even though she verbally accented to the idea of me being the head of the household, we did not have all the bugs worked out as to how that looks in a real marriage versus a the description of the ideal in a sermon. My pastor sat me down early on and gave me good counsel about how to be a real leader in my family and I set to learning how to lead my family (which took several years). I still served as the associate pastor through these years.
I would say that you should worry less about your wife’s current position and focus more upon your actual leadership. You can demonstrate what it means to be the head of your household and convince her with this display. Leadership is not really tested until you must lead someone to a place they don’t necessarily want to go! My best advice in this venture is that you must demonstrate that no matter what decision that you make, it is in the best interest of the whole family and not out of your own needs. When your wife eventually trusts your motivations, she will trust your decisions.
Please note that my counsel is focused on your actions, not your wife’s position.
Unfortunately, once your wife’s convictions became known, that would compromise your leadership if you were a senior pastor, and probably if you were further down in the hierarchy than that. You would be written off as the minister with a feminist wife, and would not be taken seriously.
This is coming from someone who is disqualified from ever being a senior pastor, not because my wife is a feminist, but because I don’t have a wife at all. Refer:
http://www.albertmohler.com/2011/03/25/must-a-pastor-be-married-the-new-york-times-asks-the-question/
as to why. ;-)
Because you indicate that you are young, and currently in a pastoral position, I would strongly recommend you stay in that role, if you are able, as you prayerfully sort this out. This issue is too large and, as others here have indicated, too far-reaching to sort out while you are also sorting out the myriad responsibilities of a senior pastorate for the very first time. In fact, the combination of the two could very well jeopardize that ministry.
There are two parts to the complementarianism issue. The first, and most essential, is theological. Complementarianism is an expression of the relationship between the members of the Trinity and how they function.
But the other part of the issue, which flows out of the theological issue, is practical. It’s the defining of that view, and especially, how it’s lived out, in your home, and in your church. With respect, and with as much gentleness and love as I can convey over the Internet, the definition you reference is an unhelpfully narrow, microscopic one. A fuller, better definition, would make a better effort to define and honor the work women are called to. That effort would also, hopefully, lead more pastors and churches to better model that level of respect in their churches and homes. In far too many cases, the challenges with conplementarianism for women are far more about the working out of the issue, than the issue itself.
That being said, you are called to lovingly pray for and lead your wife in this way. It’s about far more than who gets to preach on Sunday. It’s about how the money gets spent, how your children will be disciplined and what those children also learn about the Trinity by the way they see you interact. Pray. Ask God to help you model to your wife the beauty of true complementarianism. Ask God to show her more fully who He is. He will do it.
I would ask a few questions. How important is this issue to your wife and why? Is she nurturing ‘Joyce Meyer’ fantasies and sees your elevation to a senior pastor as her opportunity to ‘be unloosed’? Does she have a two-for-one view of ministry calling (ala’ Hillary Clinton who stated that when voters elected Bill, they got her for free)? Does she view the pastor’s wife role as really being a co-pastor, in practice if not in title? If so, all I can say is…..”yikes”.
If, however, her egalitarianism is more in the form of ‘in theory, a woman should be able to teach men, preach from the pulpit, etc.’ but she has no Paula White-ish ambitions of her own (or to be more charitable, Beth Moore-ish ambitions), then the question becomes…how vocal will she be on the subject?
If she is willing to voice her opinion to church members that runs contrary to yours, not only should a bright, yellow ‘DO NOT CROSS’ tape be erected around the pulpit for her benefit, I would be worried about her hosting a Ladies’ Tea! No pastor’s wife (no, not one) should ever contradict her husband in matters of theology. Not ever. To do so is to completely undermine his authority. It is one thing to gently jibe the husband for an inability to get the kids dressed in matching clothes. It is a whole other matter to criticize or correct his judgment in matters of scripture. Once a pastor’s wife engages in this, even once, she has undermined his authority in that church. You can’t ever un-ring that bell.
Ideally, a husband and wife should be in agreement on all matters of theology before the husband steps into that leadership role. It’s true that some unessential matters might remain. The husband might teach a post-trib view of the Second Coming while his dispensationalist raised wife still has her doubts. In such cases, she should voice her questions privately and probably leave her Ryrie study bible at home. A pastor’s wife might be far more reformed than her husband. Again, any disagreements on the matter should be held at home, not in view of the congregation. Ultimately, she needs to trust the Holy Spirit. If he needs correction in the matter, the Holy Spirit is much more capable in doing so.
The complementarian vs. egalitarian issue may not be one of the five fundamentals of the faith but it is important because the debate centers on Scripture. If your wife has such strong opinions on the subject (contrary to yours) that she cannot contain herself, all I foresee is a ministerial train wreck.
If a woman has the spiritual wisdom, discernment, and intellectual chops of a Priscilla, God provides areas where she can have an influence. It might not be the flashy, most prominent role, but if that is all she is interested in, I suspect she probably has more pride than true biblical wisdom.
Another thought to keep in mind: The husband and wife relationship is illustrative of the relationship of Christ and the church. In a congregation, the senior pastor and his wife are the primary role models of that relationship. Therefore, a pastor’s wife who criticizes or seeks to correct her husband in this manner is depicting quite vividly (though unintentionally) a church who is criticizing or seeking to correct Christ.
A sobering thought; one that should give us all theological hee-bee-jeebies.
@Susan Stilley,
Wow - disagreeing with one’s husband undermines his authority?
Why?
Respectful disagreement between adults modeled by the pastor and his wife should strengthen marriages.
Why must the pastor’s wife pretend not to think deeply about theology? Why must she never express a contrary view?
Sure, if he is happy to be teased about his taste in clothing but takes offense at her disagreeing with him on matters of theology, that is an issue but if they can disagree in a mature and respectful way, I’d see nothing but benefit for the congregation?
Yes, you can be a pastor if you and your wife have a theological difference of views on gender roles. But it’s got to be something that you and your wife have come to an agreement on how you will handle the issue in practicality. If there’s any sort of disconnect, your marriage will suffer under both the strains of being in ministry and being in disagreement (amicable though it may be currently) on this issue.
I think your healthy view of acceptance of who your wife is will go a long ways, but be wary and proactive.
In reality, though, whether you’re egalitarian or complementarian in your beliefs, in practice it all looks pretty similar if submission and putting your spouse above yourself is the ruling principle on either side.
Dear Complementarian Man,
What you have left out of the equation is whether or not your wife is egalitarian or complementarian in regards to roles in the household: if she is complementarian in regards to the roles in the household, then she will follow your leadership in regard to how this ought to be resolved in public life.
This is not to say that she will change her opinion of roles of women in the church. However, if she agrees to follow your headship as husband, then she will agree that you both will agree to disagree amicably in public, but that she will not seek to undermine your teaching in any way.
This may actually lead your congregation to understand that this is not an issue of first order- that believers can agree to disagree and very much love one another. One need not conform in every area but can joyfully serve and celebrate Christ together.
If your wife is egalitarian in both the household AND in church polity, then I would try and convince her to submit in this area for the very same reasons.
Again- add a little levity: we all differ and it is important to keep the central tenets central and laugh at our diversity in smaller issues.
It will be tough to lead b/c you will be teaching and counseling in one way while your home will look different. And this is an issue that touches alot of life from parenting to finances etc in the home as well as in the church. Would your wife be willing not undermine your teaching and leadership by keeping her views private? I suppose not since that goes to the very issue at hand.
I guess it then depends on how significant this belief is to you and your church. Since it’s application has an abundance of effect on people’s lives it’s hard to say it’s a secondary issue in my thinking.
I understand submission as an inclination to yield. The scripture is clear on who is to submit to whom. Parents are not to submit to children, nor masters to slaves, but that is how people read this passage for wives and husbands. It’s also clear that leadership is sacrificial love and servanthood.
Now i will hit the ’submit’ button…
“Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” - 1 Timothy 2:11-14
“He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?” - 1 Timothy 3:4-5
This is not a matter of the writer’s personal preference vs. his wife’s personal preference — it is a matter of submitting to the Word of God. This husband needs to teach his wife and call her to repentance. How can he truly love her and neglect to do this?
If she persists in both believing and teaching against the Scriptures, there will be an extent to which she will undermine his ministry. (I don’t know that that would mean he shouldn’t become a pastor — surely it would be best to try to resolve this first.) But he must not enter the ministry until he is ready to call her sin, sin and call her to repentance, or he will have the same unwillingness to confront sin in his flock as pastor. It’s a matter of honoring God or man.
My questions would be…is she egalitarian in theory, practice, or both, and why is that her position?
If it’s mainly in theory, but not something she is strongly emotionally committed to, you’ll probably be fine. For example: I love theology, have a position on most issues, and lead in my church in a variety of ways. I agree with the pastors on almost all theological issues, but we don’t have to agree 100% on something for me to defer to their leadership and avoid creating controversy - and no one will ever know we differ. Get any group of thoughtful people together and it will be hard to agree on EVERYTHING.
If it’s in practice, or something she’s emotionally committed to - find out why. Abuse in her past? Growing up around extreme patriarchy? There is a lot more to this issue than simply calling it sin, as some comments have implied. Many times a woman passionate about egalitarianism is a woman who has experienced unbiblical extremes on the other side and feels denigrated as a woman. In that case, love her and model for her the positive aspects of biblical complementarianism.
Finally: be biblical. Study Scripture with her, and if something’s traditionally “complementarian” but isn’t in Scripture, ditch it. Don’t be committed to a label. Who cares if either of you doesn’t fit a complementarian/egalitarian mold? There are plenty of variations in both systems. Follow Scripture.
@Phoebe,
Your reply is the best in the whole bunch. You actually grasp the importance of digging down to the root and the whys, and addressing that…. unlike the rest who heard the word “egalitarian” and immediately began thumping their Bibles and declaring “This is SIN and you are a SINFUL HUSBAND if you don’t correct your wife.”
Thank you.
@Phoebe & @Joy:
Respectfully, I believe you are both missing the point. The young man did not ask how to correct the situation so that he could go into ministry, he asserted that there was nothing wrong with the situation, and that he wondered if it would hurt his career. The above advice is a great way to deal with the situation, but it’s an answer to a question no one asked.
As for the Bible thumping… Sin is sin. Rejection of the truth is rejection of the truth. Lies are lies. As Orwell said. We’ve sunken to a point where the first duty of intelligent men is pointing out the obvious. In the end, why his wife is believing these lies and going against God’s clearly stated truth is only relevant in the context of how to help her believe the truth and repent. But the young man starts with the base assumption that the situation is acceptable. It is not, and that is why many of us here have been pointing that fact out.
I have a number of friends who are devout Pagans, worshipping the “gods” of Nature. Several of them chose that path after being abused by those who claimed to be Christians. But in the end, why they choose to reject the truth does not matter. It is important to know in terms of how to minister to them effectively, but when they stand before God at the end of days “But people were mean to me!” is not a valid excuse for worshipping demons. Similarly, even though this woman may be covered by Jesus’ sacrifice, she will still account for her actions in this life and “But some men were real jerks to me!” will not be a valid excuse for rejecting the parts of God’s Word she disliked.
@Phoebe, I think that by saying that this future pastor will be “fine” if his wife is mostly holding to the egalitarian view, “in theory” because she is not that “emotionally committed” to it - is a bit dangerous. First - this view, even if held lightly or half-heartedly by his wife, has the potential to develop more fully into something that could severely affect the home, and this man’s ministry. I think we could somewhat assume that her egalitarianism is probably strongly held - given the fact that the man identifies his wife as a “committed feminist”.
I do agree with you that many women (including most I have met) tend to be egalitarian more for “emotional” reasons than anything else . Sometimes because of a misunderstanding of the scripture and what egalitarianism actually is, and sometimes because of past history that really may have nothing to do with Scripture at all. As you suggest, I think that it is incredibly helpful for the husband to try and understand what some of these issues may be for his wife - as he seeks lovingly understand his wife and address this issue with her from Scripture.
I am a bit concerned at your statement, “Who cares if either of you doesn’t fit a complementarian/egalitarian mold? There are plenty of variations in both systems. Follow Scripture.” I don’t think the issue is about following some sort of “mold”, but rather, what does the word say about the role of women in leadership in the church? Yes - there is flexibility in discussion about how roles look in the home- but this issue is not “gray” as it appears you are making it. Its black and white. Whether women should be allowed to hold positions of authority over men in the church must be addressed clearly and concisely from Scripture. I don’t see room for variation on this issue.
@John I think you made a great point in your statement: “In the end, why his wife is believing these lies and going against God’s clearly stated truth is only relevant in the context of how to help her believe the truth and repent. ”
It is important that while we agree that his wife’s egalitarian view is wrong, we still encourage the pastor to dig and try to understand why his wife is believing what she is. Its almost like thinking about how to contextualize the gospel. Its difficult to do so - when you don’t understand the belief system and framework of the people you are trying to reach. Similarly, it is important for this husband to understand his wife and her belief on this issue - so he can more effectively present and teach/reach her with the truth of the Scripture.
@Jenny Clark,
I agree, if the question is how he should act. However, the question he asks made it quite clear he has intention of trying to persuade his wife of the truth. He is in open defiance of both God’s Word and his own beliefs, and is neither repenting nor seeking counsel on his actions. He’s merely worried if his sin will hurt his career.
In other words, you have a wise and insightful answer to a question no one has asked.
I guess I’m confused as to what this actually looks like in your home?
While I understand about agreeing to disagree (on some issues) and that most disagreements in the home can be resolved through good communication and submission to God and His Word….this issue has direct impact on daily interactions and decision making. It seems like a big deal to me…
I don’t know of any marriage (even really good, solid ones) where eventually there is not some decision that requires submission and giving in to the leadership of another.
So–when this happens–what do you do?
It seems like, from what you wrote, that your wife’s perspective wins out in your home if “neither leads the home but decisions are made by consensus.” I wasn’t sure if you were saying that is what happens or just what she wants to happen?
If this is how things work practically in your home, but then you are teaching something different from the pulpit…I do think that will be very confusing to those whom you pastor.
I also think it will be very very confusing to your children (if God blesses you with them someday or you have them now).
And–if you are teaching one thing, but she is communicating a different conviction about gender roles as she interacts with the congregation…that would be very very confusing too. So–is she supposed to stay silent about this issue?
I know that a husband and wife don’t always have to agree on every single thing…but this issue has daily, life-shifting implications…maybe it would be good to prayerfully commit to studying this area together and prayerfully ask God to unite your convictions.
Something which may help to affirm both the complementarian view of Scripture and an egalitarian woman’s desire to serve in a teaching role is this excerpt from Richard Baxter, quoted in Thomas Manton’s mid-17th-century “Epistle to the Reader of the Westminster Confession of Faith and Larger and Shorter Catechisms” (here using an edition updated for modern readers):
“Among others, a principal cause of these mischiefs is the great and common neglect of the governors of families, in the discharge of that duty which they owe to God for the souls that are under their charge, especially in teaching them the doctrine of Christianity. Families are societies that must be sanctified to God as well as Churches; and the governors of families have as true a charge of the souls that are in them, as pastors have of the Churches. But, alas, how little is this considered or regarded! But while negligent ministers are (deservedly) cast out of their places, the negligent masters of families take themselves to be almost blameless. They… promise to teach their children the doctrine of the gospel, and bring them up in the nurture of the Lord, but they easily promise, and easily break it. Thereby they educate their children for the world and the flesh although they have renounced these and dedicated them to God. This covenant-breaking with God, and betraying the souls of their children to the devil, must lie heavy on them here or hereafter. They beget children, and keep families, merely for the world and the flesh, but little consider the greatness of the charge that is committed to them, and what it is to bring up a child for God, and govern a family as a sanctified society.
“O how sweetly and successfully the work of God would go on, if we would just all join together in our several places to promote it! Men would not so often run off to be preachers (uncalled), but would find that part of the kingdom’s work that belongs to them to be enough, and not only enough, but the best that they can be employed in. Especially women should be careful of this duty; because as they spend the most time with their children, and have early and frequent opportunities to instruct them. This is the principal service they can do to God in this world, being restrained from more public work. And doubtless many excellent magistrates have been sent into the Commonwealth, and many excellent pastors into the Church, and many precious saints to heaven, through the happy preparations of a holy education, and perhaps by a woman that thought herself useless and unserviceable to the Church.”
@John Gardner,
That quote brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for it.
I think scripture is clear about your qualifications for leadership. It’s true that if your wife holds contradictory ideas that it will be difficult at best to be an effective leader of a congregation.
The problem lies in whether or not she is actually wrong. From what I read in your letter to Dr. Moore, I’m understanding that your wife rejects the idea of male leadership in marriage?
The bible is clear that male leadership is representative of Christ’s leadership or headship of the church. Jesus and I don’t get together and come up with a consensus, He says how it is and it’s up to me to follow Him.
It will be just about impossible to tell young people at your church about marriage and leadership if your wife goes behind you telling a different story (and she will, it’s her conviction that you are wrong and she is right on this matter).
The problem sometimes is we don’t want to think we actually have to accept scripture on matters in our present time. We are quick to avoid conflict and disappointment. The biggest thing you can do on this and I am sure you already are is to pray. But you have to be real with God on this and accept that you aren’t qualified for leadership, not because you aren’t leadership material or somehow you aren’t a good leader in your home but because you are in a situation that more readily demonstrates the importance of the marriage covenant than it does leadership. Lead as you may, it is still an issue at home.
It’s not a good example, but *Hosea’s wife didn’t follow scripture either yet God still thought him godly and used him. God may use you in a different way to demonstrate the love a husband ought to have for his wife even if she is in error.
*this is not to suggest anything unseemly
I just got an idea after reading all of these posts. Why not present both views while you pastor. Teach a class on how to look up original scriptures as much as possible by utilizing online tools such as scripture4all.org and blueletterbible.org
Invite theologians and scholars periodically from both sides. I know it might seem unfair to your wife but I would probably book male teachers from both camps since the male headship camp would not listen to a female teaching a Bible class. Allow everyone in your congregation to have an educated opinion. There will always be different opinions anyway, and resentful feelings anyway whenever one side perceives their God given rights have been ignored. From what I have read from the complementarian side I see they teach the woman is to voluntarily submit instead of being forced to submit. And on the egalitarian side I see they teach a mutual submission. So that would mean they are still submissive. So what could be the harm of teaching both views when both views claim their position is biblically sound and both claim it is best for both men and women.
@Patti Hoeks,
the problem is that both views are not sound. If his wife believed in theistic evolution, should he then lend credence to that by inviting people who hold that view? Why stop at issues non-essential to salvation then? Let’s get a “Christian” universalist in there too, really get the debate fired up. We cannot accommodate those who spread dissension (and rejection of your husband’s leadership, when your husband is theoretically leading the church is most certainly sowing dissension) among the faithful.
Titus 1:10-11 10 For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. 11 They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach.
@Patti Hoeks, Unfortunately - it seems like your comment really fails to address the heart of the issue. What view is Scriptural and, will the fact that this man and his wife have opposing views on a very significant issue, (especially for a man considering the pastorate) be a problem if he goes into the pastorate.
I believe the answer is yes - it will be a huge problem if this man goes into the pastorate - and therefore he shouldn’t. By suggesting to have people come and teach the various views, it appears you are implying that holding to either view is acceptable, which it is not. Any pastor needs to be clear about his view on the role of women in leadership - and the view that the church holds as well. A pastor and his wife should not be in disagreement on this issue.
Forgive me, but this whole conversation, which I stumbled upon by accident, makes me so very happy that I am no longer an evangelical. Apologizing for my intellect and volition is no longer part of my purview.
@Lorna Wyte,
That is a deliberate mis-representation of the arguments here. Sadly not always of the way it is put into practice by the sinful people who may abuse the Word, but still not true.
What amazes me surrounding this whole subject matter is how focused everyone is on the dogmatic position of gender. They cherry pick scriptures and leave the context behind. They forget the historical time period, and don’t try to let God speak to them in their study time.
I have an interesting question: How many men on here can honestly say they have not learned anything about their walk with God from something that their mother, wife, or girlfriend said or pointed out? Maybe during that conversation with the opposite sex it sparked an idea, a point of view, or enlightenment about scripture. Is that not learning? Hence being taught?
Most learning happens in life, not in a church. Sermons have there place, but I’ve learned more by the challenge of the world. In the grand scheme of things it’s called ‘Majoring in Minors’. If you choose to spin your wheels on this subject so be it. For me and my house I choose to go with God where ever He leads.
@Brad Beaty,
A few thoughts on your comment. First - you didn’t really address the scriptural argument of complementarianism vs egalitarianism, but rather it appears you have assumed that people are “cherry picking” scripture and leaving “context” behind. I am guessing based on your comment that you believe that those who hold to a complementarian view are doing just this - but you haven’t explained how they are doing that with the Scripture that teach on this issue of women in leadership.
It seems that in your question, “How many men on here can honestly say they have not learned anything about their walk with God from something that their mother, wife, or girlfriend said or pointed out? ” you are implying that learning something about God from a woman is similar to a woman “teaching” a man. The issue of the role of women in the church - even more specifically, the role of women in positions of authority over men in a church, is very different than say, a man learning something about God via a female.
It appears you may be making light of the issue of women and “teaching” - although I am not sure if that was your intent.
The question here is, can a man and his wife have opposing views on women in leadership. It seems that you think this is a minor issue - and you choose to focus on the more “major” things - like following after God, “wherever he leads”. But, this is an issue that has to be addressed, and, its not minor. Following after God is good, but, that statement doesn’t really address the issue.That statement just seems to imply that this issue is some sort of sidebar to really following after God - whatever that truly means.
In reply to John Balog’s answer to my idea post #28; The Titus dissenters knew exactly what they were doing. I do not think it fair for you to put this pastor’s wife in their camp. Your reply just proved my point further that an understanding of where both views come from could be a good thing for the church, and presented by people from both sides since one side presenting the other side usually makes assumptions that are not necessarily correct. If this pastor really believes his wife is sinning on purpose in this area he would not have said the things about her that he did. If you are suggesting that the only way people like her believe the egalitarian way is because they have been persuaded by dissenters that were not silenced then all the more reason for education on how both sides arrive at their convictions.
@Patti Hoeks,
How she arrived at her conclusions is irrelevant. Truth is the truth, ignoring it is ignoring it. Attempting to warp it for your purposes (whatever reason you have for them) is wrong. Whether she is doin g it purposefully or because of past abuse does not change whether it is right or wrong.
I think this young man answers his own question when he asks if he and his wife should be in agreement regarding, “an issue that will be so directly relevant to how I preach, teach, counsel, and lead the congregations God calls me to serve.” My husband is not a pastor, but it would be a serious problem if I disagreed with something directly relevant to how he does his job - complimentarian or not. I think before you step into any career where there is disagreement so relevant to how the job is performed, you need to work that out for the sake of your marriage. Marriage relationships are so important because nothing less than the gospel is at stake in them. There is something curious about wanting to preach the gospel from the pulpit and not having harmony at home regarding what marriage actually is.
This man also asks if this theological difference with his wife will be confusing to a congregation. No, it won’t. Hypocrisy is easy to identify in another person. Even kids can do it. People won’t be confused. They will just sort of gradually lose respect for his teaching as they realize it’s not practiced at home.
I have prayed that God would draw near to this couple. I’m counting on the blood of Christ for forgiveness for my errors in theological thinking and my errors in my own marriage. May God make his name great through this dilemma.
As I read through the many responses to this pastor’s question I am saddened by the simple fact that it matters not what “we” think. It matters not about feminism and what men and women want. What matters is what God says and what His Holy word declares. Only men can have spiritual authority over women. Period.
It’s a matter of the gospel of Jesus Christ. If in marriage the husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church and the woman is to respect and obey her husband as the church does to Christ then that exact same model is demonstrated in the leadership of the church.
The husband in this matter who happens to also be a pastor is the spiritual leader and in this case his spiritual guidance and leadership is biblical and his wife should follow that leadership. Her choice to disobey Scripture as he leads should not disqualify his call as pastor but if her persistence leads to others in the church being misled about Biblical truth then church discipline should be started.
@Jay Wingard,
Actually, I think the existence of an issue that (if it does not drastically change) will inevitably require church discipline is, in fact, disqualifying.
What an excellent question and discussion on such a relevant topic. However, the real topic is not about this gentleman’s future pastorate or even his current position, it is about the gospel of Jesus Christ and the changes that come about because of it. I believe it was a John Piper quote I once saw that said, “Knowing Christ changes something about everything”. This includes our culturally influenced ideas about gender roles.
I’m reminded of an article by Dr. Mohler I read a while back concerning whether or not those who have been divorced can be deacons. He made a fascinating and very relevant point in suggesting that too often we want to boil things down to the minimum requirements for the fulfilling of an office and, in my humble opinion, that’s what’s happening here. So many of the comments haven’t been about God’s fullest and richest intentions for the husband/wife relationship in marriage but about just how far the wife can be in disagreement before this gentleman is disqualified.
So what is the real point here? Consider what God has said his intentions for marriage are:
Genesis 2:22-24 - And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
The implications of being one are certainly physical in nature but much, much more than that they are spiritual. The spousal relationship is a representation of the oneness (and the resultant joy, peace and happiness) that exists in the Godhead.
Consider the oneness of the Godhead! Is there disagreement or disunity? Of course not.
Consider another verse:
Malachi 2:14-16 - But you say, “Why does he not?” Because the LORD was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. 15 Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth. 16 “For the man who hates and divorces, says the LORD, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.”
Just to boil that down, one of God’s major purposes in marriage is to produce godly offspring. Which is why divorce is such a problem. It’s just not God’s optimum design for preaching the gospel in marriage. Why?: Because a husband who puts away his wife is telling a lie to his children and to the world that Christ will spurn His Church, that He is not faithful. And aren’t we thankful that Christ didn’t look for a loophole to get rid of His adulterous, complaining, faithless wife? THAT’S what faithfulness means!!
Now, finally, in light of these two passages consider Ephesians 5:25-31 - Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
Now, we can’t “sanctify” our wives within our own power but God has appointed a husband as a means of grace in the life of his wife to take her into the Word of God and “cleanse” her in a sense through the truth of the Word of God and by the power of the Spirit of God. This is representative of Christ cleansing and washing the Church!
On the surface this might sound arrogant, but knowing you hold this responsibility is overwhelmingly humbling. If it’s not, you need to do a serious heart check. If the prospect of having to lead your wife (and children as well) into the Word to confront her sin and error doesn’t immediately make you feel inadequate because of your OWN sin and shortcomings, you are in danger of abusing the “authority” given you by Christ to lead (read “serve” just as Christ does) your family.
So, to sum all this up, the requirements in scripture for Church leadership are not to be seen as a minimalist set of rules but a means by which to measure the heart condition that will help you discern whether a man is fit for leadership. A man doesn’t make sure his house is in order so that he can be a leader in the Church; it is his hearts desire that his house is in order and that MAKES HIM FIT for leadership!! If this gentleman and his wife are in disagreement on such basic issues as gender roles, then, at least at this time, this gentleman should not be in ministry leadership at all, in any position whether it’s associate pastor or senior pastor. This is not a punishment. Instead, he needs to have as much time and freedom as possible to spend with his wife focusing on these heart issues between the two of them.
Husbands and wives will never be in perfect agreement on every issue but some are more important than others and this one is a core element of the marriage relationship.
I now apologize for the length of this post but hope it will add something useful to the overall discussion.
Myself and a group of ladies at our church are currently studying through “Womanly Dominion: More Than a Gentle and Quiet Spirit” by Mark Chanski (its counterpart is “Manly Dominion”), and we prefaced our study with a quick overview of “Equal Yet Different” by Alexander Strauch. I would highly recommend these books for you and your wife to read. It think it would shed much scriptural light on the issues you are dealing with.
Both authors do an excellent job of looking at Scripture and showing clearly the reason why God did, indeed, create us male and female. He did not have to do this; He could have created one self-procreating, androgynous sex…He could have done whatever He wanted. Our God is not an arbitrary God, but rather a God of purpose and order; and He intentionally, purposefully designed us male and female with differing roles for a reason. Why? Strauch and Chanski say this much better, but allow me to attempt a summary:
First, we see from the very beginning of Scripture in Genesis 1:27 that men and women are created equal in that we both equally bear the image of our Creator and with respect to salvation. In Genesis 2, we see that while we are equal in essence, we are diverse in function. We see the concept of headship and submission introduced (before the Fall) when the LORD gives Eve as Adam’s helper. Thankfully, God gives us an inspired commentary on Genesis 1 & 2 over in 1 Corinthians 11:3 & 7-9 to confirm that these first two chapters of Scripture are, indeed, telling us that God designed men and women with differing roles.
Second, the husband/wife relationship bears the image of the relationship between Christ and His bride (the church) to a lost world (and to the congregation you serve in). This is an image of loving, self-sacrificing headship and joyful submission to that headship.
Third, in God’s intentional design for the differing roles of men and women we are bearing the image of God Himself. By this I mean that the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is the original example of headship and submission and of equality of essence and diversity of function. It is not degrading or demeaning for Christ to submit Himself to the headship of the Father, is it? No. Read Philippians 2:5-11. By obediently fulfilling our designed roles in Scripture we rightly bear the image of the triune nature of God.
When we refuse to walk obediently to God’s design for us as men and and women–equal yet different–then we falsely portray the nature of God Himself and the gospel to a lost world, and that is a BIG deal.
I apologize for a weak and long attempt to summarize two very wise teachers (Strauch and Chanski). Their teaching and the fact that it is straight from Scripture has changed the lives of several families and marriages in our church, including my own. I cannot convey how highly I recommend their books:
Womanly Dominion by Mark Chanski
Manly Dominion by Mark Chanski
Equal Yet Different by Alexander Strauch
I’m a pastor and my wife said I could be a complimentarian if I wanted to be one!
I find this issue fascinating. Would it follow that a female leader of a ministry at church should NOT have given devotions at volunteers’ meeting because a couple of the volunteers were men? Do we really believe that St. Paul would have warned men against reading a devotion or Bible study written by a woman? If we believe that, I am amazed. If we do not, why not?
My denomination does not accept women as Deacons, yet they are allowed to make and deliver meals for ill congregation members. But it seemed that the initial job in Acts for deacons was distribution of food. Does something seem odd?
Anyone
Seems this young man has other ethical problems besides his wife.
This young man writes…
“while both men and women are gifted for service in the church, only men as qualified by Scripture are called to serve in the office of pastor.”
Was wondering…
In the Bible - How is a man “”Qualified by Scripture” to be a pastor?
In the Bible - Who was called to serve in “The Office of Pastor?”
In the Bible - Where is the “Title” and “Position” of todays pastor?
In the Bible - What congregations are “Led” by a “Senior Pastor?”
In the Bible - Why is NO ONE called pastor?
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall “hear My voice; “
and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold - One Shepherd - One Voice
{{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
In Gen. 3:16, God told Eve, “Your desire (recourse) will be for your husband and he will rule over you”. (God did not direct her to do this only if she chose to or only if she thought Adam was or would always be right).
In Ephesians 5:22-25, “Wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord…to their husbands in everything (obviously there being no immorality or abusiveness going on). Husbands love your wives just as Christ loved the church”.
Eph. 5:33,…”each of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband”. (whether she agrees with him or not).
To Adam, God said, “Because you listened to your wife (and not Me) and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, Cursed…..”.
Love (him) and respect! (her). If each of these imperatives is carried out, by the man and wife, it seems to me there can be mutual disagreement between the two. And where this is the case, if he loves her to the extent required by Christ, and she respects him to the same extent, this could be modelled to the church and result in enlightenment for all concerned
Where either one, or both, cannot-or will not-relate together as directed there will be hurt, dissapointment, and in a congregation confusion, disrespect, and lack of unity.